TeedUp

I don't have personal experience, but I've heard that if you enjoy white ink clogging your nozzles, then you'll have a barrel of fun with liquid adhesive clogs. Also not sure if true, but I've read that you're locked into the printer vendor for supplies.

I'll bet you've solved this already one way or another,

but If you are switching in an identical part, are you asking if it needs a bios specific to the printer model? I could be wrong, but if they are identical part numbers you shouldn't have a problem. Your drivers should work fine.

if you are asking about a different board that is not specified by manufacturer, not specified as compatible, I think you'd be more than lucky if you could make it work.

2 hours ago, johnson4 said:

For the Chinese machines I don't think it matters. I've ordered and used several variations of the fa1080/xp600 without any issue, other than bad quality printheads like clogged nozzles etc. Half the time I just asked for the xp600 printhead with the damper style adapter and went with that. 

 

I know for Epson machines, it matters entirely if it is locked, unlocked, third locked, 2nd locked etc. 

 

I can't say for certain, but I personally haven't ran across it being an issue but I didn't dig that deep. After going through the 6 printheads I dropped it especially once I got the P5000 going and saw how fast it was and reliable, I ended up with 4 of those so that is where I personally stopped with it.

 

I know there are some who say that you can't pull the printhead from certain desktop printers and use them in the Chinese printers, like the i3200, it's also from a cheap desktop machine. First hand I haven't experienced it. For your scenario it may be worth reaching out to a supplier and asking, maybe cross reference the mainboard you have and reach out to the manufacturer or the sellers of those boards what versions of the printhead will work with it. Asking someone who sells printheads will likely not help or just tell you what you want to hear, as well as any information you get from random people will likely be muddled. 

 

I don't find it often that people look that far into anything, so if you do figure it out, I'd love to know too.

I wasnt having a problem with locked/unlocked heads.  My point was just that if the part numbers are really interchangeable, then frequently seeing one promoted as unlocked has no meaning, which is entirely possible. 

Just wondered if it might be a clue to a potential difference between them (if one had to be unlocked, because they can become locked when used in Epson printer and removed, and the other wasn't even a question if locked (maybe part number designates it was manufactured specifically as a replacement part, or for sale to other non-epson printer mfgrs .)

I'm not really clear on the whole locked/unlocked thing.  I often see the F1080's marked as unlocked, whereas I don't recall seeing a FA09050 for sale with that designation.

Might that mean that all the FA09050's are ALL unlocked, thereby not an issue to signify, while the F1080's could be locked if they were pulled out of another machine, thereby "unlocked" is important information? ? Or am I reading too much into it?

I consistently see two different Epson XP600 printhead part numbers: FA09050 & F1080.  I've heard explanations that they differ in their origin/authenticity, but that doesn't really seem to be consistent in in matching my expectations of certain vendors to which number they use.

Any idea the distinction, if any? Anyone?

@johnson4, thank you for your thorough replies.

I burned through several XP15000's (actually 4, but it seems embarrassing to admit that kind of failure) and a time hole nightmare of maintenance before thinking dual XP600's were an attractive solution. I knew the heads wouldn't last long, but the low head cost factored into the analysis.  I just didn't expect this high of a failure rate.

So you mention your 3x13" machines.  I thought you were leaning in to the P5000 (17") in your recent preference? Which Epson is your preferred workhorse?

21 hours ago, johnson4 said:

 new $200-$220 from China. That’s the price form audley direct anyway. That’s for the “ new pulls”. 
 

I think the “genuine” new heads from Epson ( not printer pulls) are about $550. 
 

anywhere else and it’s refurb crap that didn’t work. 

I bought half dozen from China from several different sources for around $100 a pop.  I imagine pulls or factory rejects, although it's still not clear to me the supply chain of Chinese made non-Epson compatibles. 

I figured if 25% were good I'd come out ahead of $400- $550 for one domestic authentic. But so far NOT so good, still one left to test, but thoroughly disillusioned.  Also, so much wasted time with cleaning, nozzle checks, and failed print runs. 

Not even considering life expectancy, just out of the box, Im wondering if my failure rate is par for the course or perhaps just a string of bad luck? 

I suppose many will say that's what I get buying from China, but I"ve had other good luck in the past.  Saved a boatload of money on the dual XP600 that I'm still coming out ahead on the total project cost so far, and mostly good luck on other things I've bought and sold through the years,

I had a pretty bad experience dealing with Audley sales and management on an aborted printer purchase.  No way I'm dealing with them again.  Maybe I'll look at some of the other "brands" that have at least a minimal reputation, unfortunately not a lot of faith in reliability there either,  no guarantees anyway. Probably will just spring for the real deal from Superstore, or other domestic reputable source,

...have to make decision soon.

preferably inexpensive, but so far multiple sources, all crap

One criteria has to be consistency. 

On 8/23/2022 at 5:50 AM, johnson4 said:

if you plan on doing 0-15 a day I would go with the 1400. I’d never use an eco tank personally, much better out there for the same price or a bit more with far less long term issues. $1900 can buy you a beast of a machine that can print over 200 10x10’s in a work day. In a rather easy “ push button” style.  So buying a machines for a bit less than half of that that can’t do more or less  than 10-25 a day without serious issues. 

So where are you now with your P5000 recommendation? As my favorite most trusted reviewer, perhaps you could clarify/summarize where you are NOW with your top choices at each volume level. (Is it 1400 at the low end, P400 in the middle, P800 at the higher, then dual head xp600s ?)  Detail not necessary, just want to understand your current preferences. Thanks!

On 6/24/2022 at 7:52 PM, johnson4 said:

 The whole 15000 bundle, including RIP can be as cheap as $500 with a bit of research and patience for an entry level setup with a ciss. None of that means anything if you don’t take the time to really know and understand what you are doing. 
 

it’s a learning experience, even if you know exactly what you are doing. It’ll cost you money but you’ll learn and that’s the point.

@Andria Unfortunately, even after you've done much research on DTF on the XP15000, and made good decisions from so much conflicting advice out there (e.g. CISS or carts because of white circulation, 3rd party carts or OEM carts because of leaks, cleaning routines and methods, ammonia/no ammonia, curing methods, best RIP...), and even after learning by experience and mistakes, some XP15000's, and I imagine ultimately all of them, will just not cooperate in trying to accomplish the DTF task that it was NOT designed for.  At least that has been my experience.

Insufficient knowledge, human errors, string of bad luck, or futile endeavor with the wrong machine? Take your pick, any one of these can bring you down.

I occasionally participate in some of the many DTF XP15000 facebook groups that Johnson4 refers to (and am familiar with the names he mentioned), they try to be helpful.  But I'm truly sorry to report that the popularity of the XP15000 for DTF is based primarily on the lowest cost of entry, not successful experiences, and in many ways the disciples are a herd of lemmings following each other off a cliff. And I'm one of them.

I really hate to sound negative, but a lot of people are wasting time and money fighting a merciless stubborn machine, and the machine is winning.  Just a fair warning.

Oh, btw, you'll definitely need a RIP. 

2 hours ago, johnson4 said:

I hope it works out well for you. That is my main quabble with the imported stuff, There is hardly any universal RIP support. You usually get stuck with something instead of having options. Everyone is going to like something different depending on their style. many times I didn't purchase an overseas printer was literally over the RIP support and being stuck with cadlink and their "support". My experience with them sounds similar to you and Audley. 

 

I have never heard of the RIP, so I don't really know. I do hope it works out well and would love to see how it goes all in all. 

 

I still have my sleeves full so I won't be testing anything else like this for quite awhile, but would be great to know. 

Audley actually offers the Photoprint RIP as an upgrade to the Maintop RIP included with their Mini.  I can't remember where I read it, but read that Photoprint is decent, better than Maintop at least for colors. Ironically to your distaste for Cadlink (that sounds like you're maybe warming up to more recently), Cadlink is actually my preference, and I have found their support pretty good in my limited experience.

" My experience with them sounds similar to you and Audley. "  My experience with Audley was misrepresentations, broken customer service promises, and just bad customer service policies and/or manager decisions on cust serv.

It was the machine I wanted, but I couldn't deal with them after how I was treated. Never.  So I found a 35cm dual XP600 for essentially the same price, shipping same week as ordered.  Not a name I've heard before.  The only thing that gives me some trepidation is they use their own board (none of the ones mentioned above), and I can only use PhotoPrint 12 with it (included).  

I desperately need to stop burning all my time maintaining these XP15000's.  I'll probably give it a review after I put some miles on it.

tl;dr - Dealing with Audley HORRIBLE.

Just a quick update on my travails toward procuring a dual XP600.

I have only good things to say about DTFSuperstore and have a lot of respect for Andy, but I took the opportunity to save money and customize my order by going directly to China to order an Audley printer with my requirements, and a decent size list of accessories. My experience may serve as cautionary lesson against going direct for many, and an endorsement for buying from a US distributor, like DTFSuperstore.  If you don't have experience dealing directly with China, order from a good US company like DTFsuperstore.

But more so for me (I have had experience and other successes importing directly) it was disappointment, frustration, and a failed experience dealing with Audley as a company (not a review of the hardware), complete negative review. 

I may provide more details at another time when I have more time (and maybe have cooled down a bit), but the short of it is misrepresented printheads, and lies and broken customer service promises, stubborn and greedy policies (or at least the decisions of the sales manager involved). 

Order canceled, found another manufacturer of a dual XP600 head printer.  

We've come to expect the antics that I experienced as common when dealing with companies from this country with weak intellectural property laws and objectively a history of poor business ethics, but we should expect more from a company that is trying to build a reputation in the marketplace as a brand name. 

 

We started out with HTV, added sublimation, and now mostly DTF. 

On 6/9/2022 at 3:22 AM, johnson4 said:

How many washes without any special care does HTV last?

I don't knw the exact numbers, but at least 20 washes, normal care.  On the spectrum, better than white toner laser, not as good as DTF.  But really long enough life to be satisfactory longevity for a T-shirt - will most likely have other issues before vinyl peeling.

But while there are some advantages to HTV in certain types of scenarios, washability/durability is down the list of concerns. HTV can work in situations of low volume, low color.  Not good for many or complex colors, needing close color matching, or for higher volumes. The hand can be decent, and depend on the specific product and size of solid areas, but more of a hand than DTF, DTG, Sublimation, and screen print.   Some cheaper products can have quite a heavy hand.  Weeding can be a pain. Also not good for complex designs with delicate details.

Printheads are a little pricey, (compared to XP600s), I see $800-$1K-ish. That scares me a bit. 

Any data on head life expectancy, even for "normal" ink?

I have a CISS sitting in the box, almost since the start, I've been reluctant to deal with possible stagnant ink issues without a WIMS.  But now that my print volume is more regular, I'm thinking of giving the CISS a shot .

I don't have dampers, should I get them, necessarily? Or when might I not need them? and are they specific to the CISS I'm using, or are they all pretty much the same? 

Also, is WIMS advised?

Thanks guys.

7 hours ago, johnson4 said:

For any of the Chinese controllers you do need the wide format version, including the 13" and smaller chinese controller printers.

 

 I have both, the wide format version and the small format version. You can upgrade the small format version for the price difference if you wanted, as well you can add an additional port for slightly less than the small format license cost so you can run multiple machines at the same time under a different queue.

So if I upgrade my small format version to wide, can I run my XP15000s and dual XP600s off the same wide license (regardless of adding a port for simultaneous use)? Does the wide support the desktops as well?

8 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Should be able to use any supported Epson, just one at a time unless you pay for each additional port. They support the P800, so they should support it. 

Didn't you have to upgrade to the wide version Cadlink to support the Audley dual XP600?

Air clogs will often improve on their own if left alone for hours or overnight.  I don't have the patience, neither do my customers.   Multiple XP15000 so one can be down, as long as one up.

Dual XP600 head printer coming on slow boat from... yeah.  I can't wait. My life will finally be blissful, right?

Of course, you could also have a combination of different clog types, that's always fun.

7 hours ago, cartierusm said:

Interesting. How do I tell if it's an air clog?

You can find articles online that go into more detail, and I'm not sure there is one definitive way to tell, but signs include when relatively large bad nozzle areas suddenly appear, whole color channels or most of a color channel go out, and bad nozzle checks that move around after head cleans, appearing/disappearing.  Air bubbles tend to move around if they don't go away. I would consider a bad cart flow or bad ink line flow as one cause of air problems.

Non-air clog typically start as just a few bad nozzles that are basically the same each time, some may go away or more may come over time, but basically the same pattern in subsequent nozzle checks... and, in my own experience, more random looking. Typically they don't move around.

I've had similar problems with very stubborn air clogs in my xp15000 heads that were resolved by pulling both cartridge plugs, at least for a while until flow seemed back to normal. Haven't tried just leaving out the fill plug and plugging the breather hole instead, I'm going to try that.

As you probably know, there are 3 types of head clogs. 1) extraneous particles/contaminants, 2) dried ink, 3) air bubbles, of which the third cause is supposedly most prominant, and underestimated by users. On my XP15000 some air clogs just get worse with head cleans, ink charges, or purge prints.  There are nozzle test result characteristics that help differentiate air clogs from the other causes.

5 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Dumb question- how do you know which is which? 

If ordering, some vendors list more than one board mfgr, and Google shows me that both board manufacturers support both printheads. But the printer mfgrs may have only certain model boards that go with certain printheads, IDK.  

If you already have the printer, and the board doesn't have any identifying brand or model number in English, you can google image (e.g. "Hoson board xp600") and see if you can match it.

OK, I have an update, answering my own question (though not sure it's complete answer).  Supposedly the BYHX is an older board, wouldn't choose it now. Senyang is better for the i3200, Hoson is better for the XP600.  Should be no difference in how RIPs handle Senyang or Hoson (that's the part I'm having trouble believing).