jac8

UPDATE:

I tried the following values and combinations on both a 100% cotton shirt, cotton blend shirt and a cotton fleece hoodie, all using the better PET FILM (without the pattern line design type one) and cured using my usual, tested curing settings (time and temp):

Light press:

1. 1440 (20/30 ink level)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

Heavy press:

1. 1440 (20/30)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

First off, all the combinations printed w/ both light and heavy presses on both shirt and hoodie came out better, more durable and stretchable compared to the inferior PET film with line pattern design.

Here are the output from best to worst (most durable / stretchable / solid color / solid 'opacity)

1. Heavy press 1440 (70/90)
   • For the best output (Heavy press 1440 (70/90) everything came out around 95% ideal for my standards. Perfect color, perfect thickness, durability that allows for heavy stretching and scratching
2. Heavy press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • The second output (20/90 and 20/30) actually have a nearly similar durability and stretchability with the first one, and is just very very slightly less durable because of how thin the ink is. What makes it worse is the color. Magenta and cyan came out as baby pink and powder blue
3. Light press 1440 (70/90)
   • Slightly similar finish with 2 BUT is again slightly less durable
4. Light press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • With a very inaccurate, light color and is less durable because of how thin the print is. Using this setting, one design printed on a cotton blend fabric got damaged / cracks after heavy stretching.

The light press settings came out obviously inferior to the heavy presses. BUT if compared to my older lightly pressed design using the cheaper PET film with line pattern design, it still significantly has better durability and stretchability, although it still doesn't pass my expected quality standards.

In conclusion:

• Heavy pressing appears to improve durability and stretchability (as correctly suggested by @johnson4)
• Having 1440 setting helps the ink print hold enough to avoid small holes and mini cracks to appear after heavy stretching
• Fabric / material appear to have minimal to no effect when it comes to durability of the print.
• Still unproven, but based on my experiment, using PET film with a better quality, and having avoided the inferior PET film with the line pattern design, resulted to better durability / stretchability of the print across the board when compared to my previous prints using the inferior PET film consumable.

Will update should something new come up when I print new designs soon.

14 hours ago, johnson4 said:

the only reason that I can think of for the ink to wrinkle, would be it lifting up from the powder, or fabric. So if everything else is fine, I’d personally give a heavier pressure a try, and press a 2nd time after peel.

Pressure is very “ subjective”, since there isn’t a scale on the heat presses. I would do 3 identical designs, press one at your normal pressure, one slightly more, and one as much pressure as you can physically provide. Wash test all three, and see if there is a difference, that will take away that from the equation, or provide you with an answer.  

This is a very valid factor to experiment on. I have experimented on so many things but for pressure I didn't give it that much time yet. I will try and let you know.

14 hours ago, johnson4 said:

if your in a humid area, do you pre-press your garments? Moisture in the garment can cause issues too. 

Probably 9 times out of 10 I do pre-press for around 3-5 secs.

Hello!

I'll take note of your advise to do away with the film with patterns / lines lol.

32 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

however, the film like that didn’t cause wrinkling for me. What caused wrinkling for me was the amount of powder on the film, how it’s cured, and the pressure and if it’s pressed twice. 
 

if it is cured too hot, that happened. If I applied the powder after the ink had dried  a little to much that happened.  
 

I personally think the main culprit is the curing method, and the pressing method. I cure at 385 for about 3 minutes from the bottom, so the ink dries before the powder melts. Then I heavy press, then press again with a cover sheet once the pet is removed. 
 

For this may I know what amount of powder would you consider to be causing the wrinkling for you? Too much powder or too less? For me I'm sure to say that after curing I can see how every part of the design is fully covered with evenly melted adhesive without that 'bubbly' parts that don't have much melted adhesive on them. Or is it a case of too much adhesive?

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For my curing process, I use a brand new eurobrand Max armour heat press. After the wet film finishes printing from the L1800 I wait for around 9-12 minutes for the ink to dry a bit before curing as I am in a very humid country. For the temp, I use 392F for 120 - 180 sec as per the advise of many dtf people I know including my local (Philippines) supplier.

For the pressure during printing, I press with just the right amount of heaviness as per my supplier's advise. Not to heavy enough that it takes effort to lift the plate up after pressing. My press temp is 329F at 15 sec, second press at 5 sec with a teflon sheet over the film-less/exposed printed design.

42 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

when I say heavy, I mean I have four auto open heat presses, and I set it at high as it will go without popping back up. I’ll have buff arms one of these days over it..... lol. 

My press doesn't have the auto pop up function as it is mostly manual. Although I'd say that for a manual press it is pretty premium quality, smooth and very even as it is also brand new. 

Curious how heavy you'd suggest I adjust the heat press plate?

45 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

however, I think that’s the main issue with it, I really want that powder the melt into the fabric, while at the same time pressing the ink layer firmly into that melted plastic. Even though I use hot peel, I peel cold to prevent any detachment. It’s also possible your press offers uneven pressure, causing the issue. With transfers, you really need a good quality press. 

So I'm assuming based on your observation, even though curing could be a factor, it might be that I'm not pressing heavily enough for both the adhesive to melt into fabric and for the adhesive to stick on the ink enough? 

For the peel, I have cold peel and same with you I wait till it is cold enough for clean and easy peeling.

TIA as always!!

Hello!

The past 3 mos, I've been experimenting on every possible consumable option, RIP settings even cure time and temp after so many fails with curing quality and print durability.

One thing I have identified is that the kind of powder contributes to durability after I switched from PA to now TPU. I would say that while the switch hasn't totally eliminated the durability issue completely, TPU has definitely produced a lot more favorable results.

End result is that I have mastered a 99% consistent quality curing for my designs / films. The melted powder was evenly distributed without any missed out part, sticky, glossy and with the proper amount. The only issue that remains is the occasional occurrence of some prints with wrinkled parts that make these parts more prone to breakage when scratching or stretching.

Not sure if it is just coincidence but I have a hunch that the wrinkling maybe caused by one or even all of these issues:

1. Subpar PET film consumable (I switch around 3 types of PET films. Among the three, maybe just coincidence but I tend to get the wrinkly finish whenever I use the subpar one).
   • This subpar PET film consumable has patterns/ line design on its film. Not sure but I think it is from China. It also attracts moisture alot which causes excess powder to remain even after massive flicking and shaking.
2. 720 setting on the Acrorip 9.03 (80/100 ink levels). I have played around using 720 and 1440 but haven't had a solid evidence to connect this to the durability / wrinkling issues.
3. Wrong printing (either pressure, temp <I use 329F> or press time <1st press 15 sec, 2nd press 5 sec>)

Anyone who has figured out the main culprit behind the wrinkling of some parts?

7 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

The TPU doesn’t crack like your photo, but it isn’t as stretchy as what Andy sells if that makes sense. I’m sure if you went with TPU you would be happy, just be sure not to get the fine powder, it needs to be like salt( course or medium TPU) 

Yes looks like it. I'll be more than happy to compromise a certain level of stretchability for durability / lessened tendency to crack. And also, noted regarding the powder's consistency. Will try it out soon and update here for everyone's reference. Thanks again!

6 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

I understand, I can look into it as well. I know all the powders I had ( I screenprint too) and the few I tried just aren’t the same as his. They don’t stretch well( TPU).Recently he added that his was stretchy, which it is to some degree. It doesn’t crack. 
 

All of them are referred to as TPU that I have tried aren’t stretchy, except Andy’s. If you’ve tried pa and I’ve tried TPU, I’d try PES. Polyurethane ( PES) seems to be stretchy but I don’t know for sure if that’s the type of powder it is. I’m able to just buy it from Andy so I never really looked into it.

 But, I’m willing to bet it’s probably PES.  

Yeah, cool. Process of elimination I guess. Been scouring online for answers too tho and I've been getting consistent favorable reviews about how TPU is preferred over the others. On my observation, the ranking is like this: TPU, PES (read somewhere that it isn't picky when it comes to material, but cracks easier), then PA with washability being its only strong point. That's right, let's try the other types and exchange notes soon.

8 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

I recently just found this out as well.

 

the stuff for screen printing, is plasticy and cracks. 

the stuff Andy sells, is softer and rubbery ( not really rubbery, but it stretches and is softer). As far as I know they are both referred as TPU. If you can source all 3, you’d have an easy answer. 

 

Awesome. Unfortunately I'm from a diff country and sourcing from him would only increase my costing. But I guess, what you said is enough to convince me, pa is inferior to TPU when it comes to it being less stretchable and more prone to cracks. Will look for a local supplier with TPU here. Thanks @johnson4

Found out that 3 of the more common types of powder are TPU, PES and PA. I have only used PA and I don't know if it's the culprit but it seems that even with proper curing, printing etc it still has a very very limited stretch-ability which eventually causes cracks to appear on certain areas of the print specially on high cotton content fabric. Wondering what the differences and characteristics are among the three and which is best recommended for cotton fabric + high stretchability / durability. TIA!