Dtf settings

[Bsloan09]

When it comes to dtf, I run a audley 2 head. I'm not completely new to printing, as I've been printing close to a year but u still know there's so much to learn. With that being said, what's your best tip for getting the softest feel? My prints can feel sorta plastic-y sometimes. 

 

Any tips would be great. 

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Bsloan09 said:

When it comes to dtf, I run a audley 2 head. I'm not completely new to printing, as I've been printing close to a year but u still know there's so much to learn. With that being said, what's your best tip for getting the softest feel? My prints can feel sorta plastic-y sometimes. 

 

Any tips would be great. 

Care to share how many 12”x24” you can produce in an hour? 
 

it’s the type of adhesive you use and how much sticks to the transfer. Getting the white ink layer just right, along with the preheater and duster/slapper settings. It’s a combination of those things that determine the adhesive layer thickness. After that, it’s on the adhesive you use. 

[anum11]

I get a 30 meters an hour from 2*i3200 printhead audley. With cadlink and color profile, also the film itself, you can have nonnplactic printouts.

extra matte cold peel films specially, with profiled rip gives out a very nice printout while using printer at full speeds.

However ink is also important i dont have any nozzles missing for about 8 months. So i can use printer reliably at high speeds and print quality never drops. My inks are a bit more watery so they dont block printheads easyly.

Also on that part allignments of ink system and settings are very important on chinese machines. When i bought the machine it took me 1 month to perfect all settings.

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, anum11 said:

I get a 30 meters an hour from 2*i3200 printhead audley. With cadlink and color profile, also the film itself, you can have nonnplactic printouts.

extra matte cold peel films specially, with profiled rip gives out a very nice printout while using printer at full speeds.

However ink is also important i dont have any nozzles missing for about 8 months. So i can use printer reliably at high speeds and print quality never drops. My inks are a bit more watery so they dont block printheads easyly.

Also on that part allignments of ink system and settings are very important on chinese machines. When i bought the machine it took me 1 month to perfect all settings.

So that’s like 98 12”x24” prints an hour from a dual head Chinese machine? 
 

 

[johnson4]

11 hours ago, johnson4 said:

So that’s like 98 12”x24” prints an hour from a dual head Chinese machine? 
 

 

That's like 18 inches a minute X the printer width or 1.5 24" X 12" prints a minute if the machine is a 24" machine. That's insanely fast. Are you certain that is correct? @anum11

 

I haven't really been able to get a direct answer on this.  The 360 nozzle Epson does 15 24" X 12" an hour for an example. That would be 6.4 times faster and well worth the extra effort if remotely accurate. If so, That is probably 4 pass quality correct or is that 6 pass?

[anum11]

4 pass yes @johnson4 White is around %75 it is possible to throw more white in. check the video. Thou this is a lot of work really. To make this work this fast everything have to be adjusted well.

Edited July 17, 2023 by anum11

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, anum11 said:

4 pass yes @johnson4 White is around %75 it is possible to throw more white in. check the video. Thou this is a lot of work really. To make this work this fast everything have to be adjusted well.

 

IMG_3211.mov 166.27 MB · 0 downloads

Thank you for that @anum11, I greatly appreciate it. I would imagine that would have to be perfectly tuned as you say. 

 

Have you ever ran this at 6 pass? What kind of speed do you get from it in that mode if you know? 

 

Right now I am at like 4.57 M/h with the quality similar to 6 pass so that's an insane increase, likely even at 6 pass that would be worth it which would probably be easier to tune an keep tuned. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by johnson4

[johnson4]

It's just confusing for me because here it shows they only do 30 10" x 10" an hour at 6 pass: 

 

https://dtfsuperstore.com/collections/dtf-printers/products/mongoose-24-dtf-printer-only-basic-package

 

Does 6 pass really slow the machine down that much?

[anum11]

There is a ecolosion setting. That also effects the speed. Think this as inline speed in cadlink. And there is 4-6-8 pass settings, this is 1200x720 - 1800x720 - 2400x720. 
 

I never use anything other than 4 pass. Because the colors are always accurate and color layer quality is same. However on ecolosion’s fastest speed; white is a bit worse. If i need a better white i just change that and that gives me around 18 meters/hour. That is the slowest i go.

[anum11]

12 hours ago, johnson4 said:

It's just confusing for me because here it shows they only do 30 10" x 10" an hour at 6 pass: 

 

https://dtfsuperstore.com/collections/dtf-printers/products/mongoose-24-dtf-printer-only-basic-package

 

Does 6 pass really slow the machine down that much?

That is pretty slow. From what i see, even though all chinese machines uses same mainboard there are some other factors for a machine to be go fast.

Chasis is very important. If quality is bad there, there will be more rattle and that effects prints at fast speeds. I saw too many printers. For example the older one of what i have was printing a bit off after 50 cm. And this was obvious at fast speeds. They have fixed that with new chasis. I guess that was CR motor not being able to catch up the speed it needed.

Also manufacturer gave us a few newer mainboard software version, because at first printer would print grainy when we were trying to use it fast. They fixed this with software.

Production quality is very important. Support is also important. So even they all are basicly same printers, small things make huge diffirence. All needs to be perfect to use machine at its highest capacity. And this speed is absolute max speed for i3200, because faster than this would not give correct colors because printheads cant put out enough ink at faster speeds. 

[printerjet]

5 hours ago, anum11 said:

Há uma configuração ecolosion. Isso também afeta a velocidade. Pense nisso como velocidade em linha no cadlink. E há configurações de passagem 4-6-8, isto é 1200x720 - 1800x720 - 2400x720. 
 

Eu nunca uso nada além de 4 passes. Porque as cores são sempre precisas e a qualidade da camada de cor é a mesma. No entanto, na velocidade mais rápida do ecolosion; branco é um pouco pior. Se eu precisar de um branco melhor, apenas troco e isso me dá cerca de 18 metros/hora. Isso é o mais lento que eu vou.

18mt hora? oooo   isso e muito. como conseguiu isso?

[johnson4]

5 hours ago, anum11 said:

There is a ecolosion setting. That also effects the speed. Think this as inline speed in cadlink. And there is 4-6-8 pass settings, this is 1200x720 - 1800x720 - 2400x720. 
 

I never use anything other than 4 pass. Because the colors are always accurate and color layer quality is same. However on ecolosion’s fastest speed; white is a bit worse. If i need a better white i just change that and that gives me around 18 meters/hour. That is the slowest i go.

So you have 4-6-8 pass printing which coincides with the feed resolution making up those three resolutions. Makes sense. 4 pass resolution seems like it would be perfectly fine in that aspect. 

 

I don't believe I understand Eclosion setting though. Per your reference, this slows/speeds up the prints in cadlink with Epson machines. It makes the printhead pass print width smaller/larger. If none is selected it prints all at once color and white. If fastest setting is chosen, it prints larger " ink lines" in one pass. The slower, the smaller this print line/feed rate. 

so say a 1" X 1" image is printed, it will take 4 head passes to fully print the fastest. If I make it the slowest, it's something like 12 with the same print quality selected. 

I have no idea what or why this does this, as it also seems like a quality setting. I do not understand it's function and is likely why I have issues understanding print speed. 

It almost seems like Eclosion is the quality, but then what is the pass/resolution?

 

I agree entirely, It's not on the components necessarily, rather the design. That is why I haven't purchased one. 

I have had only the experience with the Audley A3 machine. The small 13" machine. The Epson P5000 prints much faster than this machine, with much less hassle. The difficulty of the machines settings, keeping those settings, an overall issues has given me a bad vibe about it. 

 

That's my problem, I cannot for the life of me find any supplier willing to put in any effort or explanation on their machine. 

I have reached out to DTFsuperstore multiple times with questions, several unanswered and some vague alongside tons of other Chinese suppliers. Anytime I get that salesman vibe over answering questions or anything related to actual information, I walk away.

In the end I am just trying to find how real world print speeds, quality, and overall support on a 24" chinese machine. Because at the end of the day I want to have the tools and device needed so I can form my skills around the device and get actual use from it, not another paperweight. 

 

I want to buy a 24" machine, dual head I3200, just still haven't figured it out yet because I only have one " go" at it. 

 

 

 

 

[johnson4]

5 hours ago, anum11 said:

There is a ecolosion setting. That also effects the speed. Think this as inline speed in cadlink. And there is 4-6-8 pass settings, this is 1200x720 - 1800x720 - 2400x720. 
 

I never use anything other than 4 pass. Because the colors are always accurate and color layer quality is same. However on ecolosion’s fastest speed; white is a bit worse. If i need a better white i just change that and that gives me around 18 meters/hour. That is the slowest i go.

So printing at 4 pass, your eclosion setting changes the print speed from 98 12" X 24" an hour to 59 12" X 24" an hour on the next "better quality" setting? I would be perfectly fine with that being the fastest speed if the quality was as good as or better than one of these slow machines. From your video, it looks achievable. It seems like the slower the print speed the more room for error when tuning the printer. 

 

Do you encounter having to readjust the settings often on the machine? the alignments and all that? The Audley A3 had to have some form of realignment daily.

[anum11]

7 hours ago, johnson4 said:

So printing at 4 pass, your eclosion setting changes the print speed from 98 12" X 24" an hour to 59 12" X 24" an hour on the next "better quality" setting? I would be perfectly fine with that being the fastest speed if the quality was as good as or better than one of these slow machines. From your video, it looks achievable. It seems like the slower the print speed the more room for error when tuning the printer. 

 

Do you encounter having to readjust the settings often on the machine? the alignments and all that? The Audley A3 had to have some form of realignment daily.

No there is no re adjustments needed if you dont unscrew printheads etc. On back side there is a rod that adjusts, roll paper’s tension. If you dont have that your step settings going to vary depending on which meter of roll you are using.

the video prints 56 cm width pdf, around 29 meters an hour. This is as i said prob. fastest speed possible. This is on Light ecolosion setting. Other one is on fog type ecolosion, this prints 18 meters. A better one is strong A but this one is unnecessary for me. Using these 2 settings with 4 pass. Ecolosion setting adjusts print height on a pass. It becomes larger or slower. 
 

On cadlink for epson printers it similar to inline speed.

Edited July 18, 2023 by anum11

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, anum11 said:

No there is no re adjustments needed if you dont unscrew printheads etc. On back side there is a rod that adjusts, roll paper’s tension. If you dont have that your step settings going to vary depending on which meter of roll you are using.

the video prints 56 cm width pdf, around 29 meters an hour. This is as i said prob. fastest speed possible. This is on Light ecolosion setting. Other one is on fog type ecolosion, this prints 18 meters. A better one is strong A but this one is unnecessary for me. Using these 2 settings with 4 pass. Ecolosion setting adjusts print height on a pass. It becomes larger or slower. 
 

On cadlink for epson printers it similar to inline speed.

Thank you. Maybe I just was terrible with the Audley A3, I'll have to revisit that machine. I had to adjust something literally everyday. It used the basic bolt/spring tensioners for the film. 

95 12" X 24" (29 meters) an hour is insane for a dual head 400 nozzle per channel printer, if it comes out looking good. 18 meters is still very good. Makes me wonder what you could get out of a 4 head machine. 

 

I think it makes sense to me now why the print speeds vary so much even though it's based on the same technology. As you say, The build quality and how perfect/firm you get your settings will determine the speed it will print. If your not exact with your alignments and settings, 6 pass will probably hide that. Then a higher eclosion would aid further in that especially for a beginner giving off a good quality transfer. If the person were persistent, they can achieve up to your stated speeds given they have the patience and the machine can hold it's alignment well. 

so things to consider when comparing 2 i3200 machine speeds: 

1. how fast the head pass is, the physical carriage speed. 

2. the 4-6-8 pass setting, for the resolution. 

3. The eclosion setting ( which is the part I was missing before you started talking to me about it).

4. The printhead specs/type. 

5. RIP

 

To be conservative and to help beginners or if the machine build quality isn't "perfect" you would advertise a slower speed to meet expectations. An "advanced" user can likely take that same machine and do much more as you say. So the 6 pass/higher eclosion settings allows  beginners to have a functioning setup without being a master at it and sets their expectations. Advertising such a high speed compared to " real world" beginners would just result in a ton of complaints with how tedious it would be to get it right would likely cause huge problems. 

If a manufacturer doesn't support 4 pass, one could assume the machine isn't capable of maintaining that setting for an extended period of time or they don't want to assist in getting the nozzles/settings/alignments perfect, so 6 pass is used. 

 

Sorry, thinking out loud as to why I am seeing ranges from 23 12" X 24" an hour up to 95 12" X 24" an hour on the same printhead/mainboard combo. 

 

It all makes sense.

 

In your opinion, what machine brand(s) do you believe would offer a good build quality and actually have manufacturer support if you don't mind me asking?

[anum11]

This one is audley. However older machines were have its problems. Newer models are always better. Maybe your old Audley were not perfected when you bought.

I am going to get a diffirent brand 4 head machine in near future but even the manufacturer does not expect the speed i got out from this. They were telling me at 4 pass it was possible to get around 23 meters of speed max.

I would not really prefer newer and cheaper manufacturers. Just go for %10 expensive from the guys who were manufacturing this kinda printers, also care if they were manufacturing sublimation printers before dtf was a thing. Audley have an experience with wide format sublimation units. I am telling you this because roll printing was a thing before and these printers were used for sublimation printing. So an ezperienced seller before the dtf time, would be better in my opinion.
 

Cheaper options are newer to compete so i would not trust cheapest options nor printers other than 60 cm wide.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by anum11

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, anum11 said:

This one is audley. However older machines were have its problems. Newer models are always better. Maybe your old Audley were not perfected when you bought.

I am going to get a diffirent brand 4 head machine in near future but even the manufacturer does not expect the speed i got out from this. They were telling me at 4 pass it was possible to get around 23 meters of speed max.

I would not really prefer newer and cheaper manufacturers. Just go for %10 expensive from the guys who were manufacturing this kinda printers, also care if they were manufacturing sublimation printers before dtf was a thing. Audley have an experience with wide format sublimation units. I am telling you this because roll printing was a thing before and these printers were used for sublimation printing. So an ezperienced seller before the dtf time, would be better in my opinion.
 

Cheaper options are newer to compete so i would not trust cheapest options nor printers other than 60 cm wide.

 

Thank you, I agree based on what I do know. I also try to mix in market awareness of certain models so I can piggy back on their support/better drivers.
 

It’s why I fear buying any random machine. Quality, established in the market and value. My problem with established business is they usually are stuck in their ways. Last time I tried to buy an Audley they refused unless I also purchased their shaker. 
 

I talked to Andy several times ( I think he’s very busy) and I just didn’t know enough to commit and he didn’t have the time to enlighten me. 
 

have you ever heard of the Calca brand? That’s the model I am considering, it’s the same as the prestige XL2. Size looks good, many videos and has a good Cadlink driver supporting it.