johnson4

8 hours ago, redna379 said:

1st of all, thanks for the replies.

Sadly this is ok. The main thing is the banding is happening only on whites, while if a machanical problem would exists also CMYK would had been affected. But they're perfectly ok.

I'm sorry in advance, this is going to be a long post... but I'd like to to give a full background about WHY I'm doing as I described. This can also work to present myself a little more in depth

I am a developer, it's about 20 years I work in creating online design tool for the printing industry. I am not a printer myself, however as automating processes is a big part of my tasks, knowing the technologies is something I just need to do. And I also find this extremely interesting!
So it happens that I purchased semi-professional machines just to test and learn: it happened ranging from sublimation to lenticular prints (which I did at home using a 3880).

About a year and a half ago, at the FESPA, I learned about DTF. What I noticed immediately was the potential, however I also noticed how immature the market still was.
There were no solid DTF brands, neither for prints nor for inks nor for films. It felt like a very promising technology starting to go from DIY to the pro market.
For that reason I decided to purchase something to test on, with the main idea of learning pros and cons and be able to properly talk about it to my actual userbase, which is the professional printing industry (mainly large format, but not only).

I saw that THE machine used by a vast majority of ppls was a converted L1800, and there I started.
I ended up purchasing a modified L1800 from a Chinese company named Procolored, and from them I also purchased their inks and pet film in rolls.

All this intro to really say one thing: I am NOT printing much, as I'm not a printer. However, learning how to deal with maintaining such machines when rarely used was pretty beneficial for my main goal, which is being able to promote DTF itself if I feel it has a potential for a customer of mine.

So: I purchased that printer past November, and it ran pretty good with the very 1st set of inks provided by Procolored.
Everything was pretty good, results met the expectations.
About 2 months ago, as expected, white started to be too watery. It literally needed full shaking and a full head cleaning every day before printing.
Even that was expected, I wanted to see how long such inks could actually last. Answer is in the range of 5-6 months max, with proper daily maintenance.
It was time to look for other inks, as by that time the one provided by Procolored was the only one I ever tried

At the FESPA of this year I saw DTF kinda exploded, but 90% of companies selling DTF equipments really had no idea of what they were selling. This ranged from poorly modified Epson printers to mysterious inks always claimed to be the only one working with their printer. But no details, very often.
When I say "they had no idea" I literally mean that: picture an international Tradeshow where they're almost all baking the powder without any suction system (thus releasing the exhalations in a closed space full of visitors), or they're hot peeling films meant to be cold peel, of having powder shakers with NO COVERING causing so the powder to literally flow as a cloud of dust (again, in a closed space full of visitors).

This happened because a lot of sellers wanted to follow the DTF hype somehow. My main concern there was that, if sellers have poor knoledge of the technology, eventual buyers not being able to reach the results they were hoping for would just blame the technology itself, rather than the poor knowledge of it their sellers actually had.

Still, several serious pals were there too. I was specifically looking to create a possible good bundle of manufacturers to propose a solid combination of printer/ink/film for different levels of printshops.
So, of course, I was looking for inks. I think I wrote about it in past in this forum. DTF inks are sort of misterious items when you ask around. I met several companies working to release their own, and very few actually giving details or willing to test in general.

This is when I had a proposal of testing a new white ink from a Corean company. As my machine is meant for testing, I agreed in taking the chance.
To do that I completely flushed my old white remains, did the deep head clean, replaced the dampers and tested the new ink.
It was fine for about 2 prints. Then it started by release VERY little white. It was bad, and in case you're curious, now I also learned why.

In short, they always tested their inks against the I3200 heads. Still Epson I thought, and also a more "pro" machine than the L1800. But I was wrong. There is a key diffrences I know learned.
L1800 has a minimum ink droplet volume of 1.5 pico litre.
I3200 has a minimum ink droplet volume of 3.5 pico litre.
And that was the thing: an ink created mainly for the I3200 was simply too "thick" for the L1800. Result for me was obviously a clogged printhead.

And so, finally, we're at today.

After the clog, I decided to purchase again a small bottle of white from Procolored. At least, it already proved to work properly with my printer.
Moreover, as I had to flush old inks a couple times for this testing, and also had a clogged printhead as a result, it was a possibly good test to see IF it was possible to deep clean properly enough to be able to return to the initial stage.

I changed my white dampers again, flushed a Corean ink out, cleared the tubes and deep cleaned the printhead again.
What I used is the 6022803 A29 Epson liquid, which is used to unclog the print heads, and although it is also used to clean dry ink, it is more suitable for purging the internal ducts of the print head. It also serves as a general cleaning liquid.
At the end of all of this, I reloaded the original white from Procolored. And I had the unexpected results I postead about.

Phew, it looks like I wrote much more than what I wanted to!

I will perform the other tests you suggested later today, I'll let you know.
Hope I have not bothered you too much with all of the above, but at least it should answer to your questions about what/why I did things.

Thanks!

Not at all, details help paint the big picture and puts me in your shoes in some way. 
 

From your description I would consider your printhead bad. 
 

All of us tested inks, because who knows what works and doesn’t compared to claims vs results. The importance of sharing data so we avoid and do not promote poor products. I as well have experienced similar issues, most of us have. 
 

In my honest opinion, your scenario sounds like the breeding ground for issues, or worst use scenario. 
 

given it’s a testing machine and an L1800, costs will be minimal to you. Procolored also has a bad reputation from what I have collected( not first hand). 
 

When it comes to this, you are not printing much. You must shake and mix your ink daily. Some inks hold it better than others but the heavy Tio2 pigment will fall out of suspension. If it’s severe enough and long enough, it will start to coagulate on an almost microscopic level. This causes bad clogging. The same for the pigment micron size, but I feel like today everyone should have it together and not be selling ink that won’t work with all printers, that’s just asking for trouble if your ink can’t jet from a 1.5pl machine but can from. 3pl machine. 
 

Anyway, ink mixing and cleaning the machine daily is an absolute requirement, ground zero. Beyond that, it sounds like you used poor quality ink. That and some inks just don’t mix well. 
 

once the head experiencing clogging, ( inside or out) and it isn’t broken down and remedied immediately it will permanently damage your printhead. I’m not familiar with that cleaner, but I know first hand Epson branded cleaner can and will destroy a printhead in less than 10 minutes. I’ve done it myself, it’s actually my example mentioned previously about it sticking to the printhead. 
 

in short- you need to print often, clean often, and use inks that are from a reputable company. Beyond that- if you can’t clear the clog with head cleans- it’s done. It’s a waste of time. 
 

replace your printhead and you’ll very likely be good, from your description, given proper maintenance is being done and the ink is of quality. 
 

fortunately for you, it’s maybe $200-$300 for that printhead.  When I was in this boat, my printhead was $1,100 to replace. 
 

it’s also why I only recommend DTF superstore inks. It just works. I’ve used hundreds of liters and haven’t seen this issue since- unrelated to mechanical issues not brought on due to the ink. I’ve tried other inks on tester machines and they were sub par and usually caused issues. 
 

finding someone who cares and will hold themselves accountable for the quality of the product they sell is very important here. We’ve all been there, and wasted money learning. 
 

If your dampers are of quality, seated correctly, and your ink is good, then your head needs replaced. Keep in mind the capping station is also a wear item, I replace mine anytime I replace a printhead.  it ensures proper sealing, suction, and prevents future printhead failure due to the capping station overall. Been there done that. 
 

3 hours ago, redna379 said:

And now, here I am with tests.

I printed white-only solid boxes, the sheet is 11.8 in wide (30cm).
The first large box is 15x15cm (4,72in), while the smaller ones (3 in each row) are 8,5x8,5cm (3,34 in).
So, a total in height of about 14,74in of solid white.

This is how the full sheet looks (sorry for quality, taking pics of it was... hard!):

 

This is a closeup picture of the first bigger box:

And this is a closeup pic of one of the smaller bosex in the very last row:

As you can see, kinda sadly, results are pretty "consistent". The kind of banding seems to be the same in all of them, and this is right after a head clean.
For this, however the ink is flowing it seems to be it just flows the same way. Makes me think that some nozzles, for some reasons, are not spraying.

For sake of info, this print was done at 1440x720. This because I know in past I could obtain solid white even with this mode.
Obviously 1440x1440 is slightly better, and here it is (row and closeup):

Still, it's there. I could still run this machine doing 1440x1440 only, it's not optimal but doable. But whatever the issue is I'm afraid will just keep damaging things more over time

That is true, something as simple as running a printer with clogged nozzles can permanently damage those nozzles. 
 

what’s your nozzle check look like? It’s a rather important part of the test. 

10 hours ago, redna379 said:

Hello everyone,

I know this is something already asked and discussed, but I'm still trying to determine the root cause.
So, here's yet anoth topic on the matter!

This is the print:

As you can see (hopefully), colors are just fine: good and solid.

However, white and white only shows stripes.
For the sake of info, my printer has 2 white channels.
I know this normally means cleaning is needed, or problems with dampers/printhead, etc...

But in this case it's slightly different, I think. I have just replaced the white dampers with new ones, filled them from a new bottlw of white ink (produced on Spets 2022) and I've also performed a very deep head clening (to be more specific: the way it's described in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXNGJzjuUZk ).
While doing that I visually saw all the nozzles spraying the clening liquid properly, so no clogs of any kind should be in place.
And at the end of the process, after refilling whites, the printer went through at least 6 full head clens.

With such clean process, new dampers and brand new white I was expecting white to SHINE. But something went obviosly wrong, looking at the results.
That said, what do you think? I can only imagine 2 things, but both sounds unlikely

1) for whatever reason, doing the cleaning I managed to ruin the printhead for both the while inks chambers only
2) something mechanical of the printer (although I would not understand why colors are fine, in such case)

thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

 

I think the factor you are missing is jetability. I have had a ton of printers over the years wear out for various reasons. Ranging from head strikes, clogs that were later cleared, ALOT of use, or even just running thick ink through it. As well as poor maintenance, improperly handling and a bad environment can cause the same to occur.

Nevertheless, The printers would work fine with OEM inks, or cleaner. The moment I loaded DTF ink in there, Clogs. They didn't always show up in nozzle checks either. It was only noticed when the printhead was unable to make the suction needed to have the ink flow properly, meaning a large solid print would show the issue. 

What you should do is do a nozzle check with the white only. Make a solid white box, maybe 6" X 6" and print that. Do a nozzle check directly before and after. If it shows any missing nozzles, or if you see any banding, likely your head is bad. We of course would continue testing to verify before doing that.  If not, proceed to do the same but print 2-3 of the 6" X 6" white boxes in a row, followed by a nozzle check. 

This will show if the printer is capable of having a free flow of ink, while properly jetting. If the CMYK layer is fine then it is likely not the paper feed encoder ( if equipped). 

The overall reason for something like this literally boils down if the ink has a sealed and free flowing path going to the printhead, the ink is shaken and good( not expired or too thick), and if the printhead is capable of jetting it still. 

What printer are you using, why did you change the dampers, and what kind of cleaning fluid did you use? You can absolutely damage the head with cleaner. If it's too strong it will eat the non-stick surface away from the printhead causing ink to stick as it jets among other things. 

Have you also made sure there is nothing on the bottom of your printhead and you have your ink channels set up properly? Nozzle checks go a long way with finding issues. 

11 hours ago, tomo-jp said:

We are waiting for carts and chips to arrive from China. Do you think ARC chips will be sold in the future?

 

Password was required to unzip the file.

Wait for you to fix it.

I have no idea, arc carts and resetter carts are hardly any different. What I’d be happy about is Chipless firmware. 
 

I haven’t made it to the computer yet but when I do I’ll update. 

30 minutes ago, tomo-jp said:

I was born in Japan and live in Japan. I don't speak English Google is helping me. You have obtained the Adjustment Program that you have uploaded, but I need a password please help. Until recently I owned 3 P600s, plagued with headstrikes many times, in Japan used P600s are trading for $200. I bought a P5000 last week, so I'm going to do a lot of testing.

P5000 has NO head strikes. 

I didn't realize it had a password. Let me fix that.

On 11/2/2022 at 6:48 PM, silva83 said:

Thanks,

I know I'll go through ink for sure..but that process is for if I have no prints for dtf and it sitting there and having to do maintenance nozzle checks print head cleaning etc I basically just wanted to run regular inks and flush out the dtf inks and not worry about it til I need to use dtf again.

Rather waste a ink than going through printers.

 

But thank you for taking the time to respond

Much appreciated 🙏 

No worries, if it helps I am glad. That idea would likely work well in that situation. I do know using some cleaners instead of regular ink it will leak and damage the machine. I've had multiple reports of that, as well as experienced it myself. 

I think the key is keeping it clean and plugging the vent holes on the refillable cartridges whenever it sits. I left mine with DTF ink in it for over 2 months and it worked fine when I tested it again. By the third month of sitting it had hit the hay. If you used OEM ink carts, I don't see how an issue would arise, and if it did and the machine is still under warranty.. you know. I still firmly believe the issue with this printer stems from the aftermarket cartridges leaking. 

Anyway, good luck!

10 hours ago, silva83 said:

I have a odd question

I have an epson xp15000 I have refillable cartridges and I have one set for dtf and the other regular ink

I wanted to use the dtf and when I'm done swap them out and put in the regular ink

Basically back and forth for everytime I need to use dtf.

Is this a good idea and what is best recommended to make this process work?

Thanks

 

Having a dedicated machine for each would be ideal. The machine won't last long with DTF as it is and you would burn through a ton of ink swapping out the cartridges/ink types. 

It does work though, just not ideal. If you are using DTF infrequently and your standard prints work without the rollers in the front, then you should be fine. Of course it should also be chipless.

2 hours ago, TeedUp said:

I wasnt having a problem with locked/unlocked heads.  My point was just that if the part numbers are really interchangeable, then frequently seeing one promoted as unlocked has no meaning, which is entirely possible. 

Just wondered if it might be a clue to a potential difference between them (if one had to be unlocked, because they can become locked when used in Epson printer and removed, and the other wasn't even a question if locked (maybe part number designates it was manufactured specifically as a replacement part, or for sale to other non-epson printer mfgrs .)

Right, makes total sense and an excellent question. The only thing I would know would just be speculation and not anything factual. 
 

hopefully you figure it out
 

1 hour ago, TeedUp said:

I'm not really clear on the whole locked/unlocked thing.  I often see the F1080's marked as unlocked, whereas I don't recall seeing a FA09050 for sale with that designation.

Might that mean that all the FA09050's are ALL unlocked, thereby not an issue to signify, while the F1080's could be locked if they were pulled out of another machine, thereby "unlocked" is important information? ? Or am I reading too much into it?

For the Chinese machines I don't think it matters. I've ordered and used several variations of the fa1080/xp600 without any issue, other than bad quality printheads like clogged nozzles etc. Half the time I just asked for the xp600 printhead with the damper style adapter and went with that. 

I know for Epson machines, it matters entirely if it is locked, unlocked, third locked, 2nd locked etc. 

I can't say for certain, but I personally haven't ran across it being an issue but I didn't dig that deep. After going through the 6 printheads I dropped it especially once I got the P5000 going and saw how fast it was and reliable, I ended up with 4 of those so that is where I personally stopped with it.

I know there are some who say that you can't pull the printhead from certain desktop printers and use them in the Chinese printers, like the i3200, it's also from a cheap desktop machine. First hand I haven't experienced it. For your scenario it may be worth reaching out to a supplier and asking, maybe cross reference the mainboard you have and reach out to the manufacturer or the sellers of those boards what versions of the printhead will work with it. Asking someone who sells printheads will likely not help or just tell you what you want to hear, as well as any information you get from random people will likely be muddled. 

I don't find it often that people look that far into anything, so if you do figure it out, I'd love to know too.

10 minutes ago, TeedUp said:

I consistently see two different Epson XP600 printhead part numbers: FA09050 & F1080.  I've heard explanations that they differ in their origin/authenticity, but that doesn't really seem to be consistent in in matching my expectations of certain vendors to which number they use.

Any idea the distinction, if any? Anyone?

I'm not sure, Possibly one of them came OEM with "damper" style manifolds and the other with the " sponge" style manifolds. They seem to work interchangeably. You can pull them from some of the XP printers, likely where the XP600 name came from. 

I have no actual data or knowledge on it though. All I know is I wanted to try the F1080 direct from Epson for a real comparison, I just didn't make it that far. 

All I know is its a 6 channel head, 2 of them at 360 nozzles per inch, 4 at 180. They double up the 4 180's to get 360 nozzles per inch for 4 color machines per head. It's pretty fast, but still a bit slower than a native 360 nozzle per channel head. I'm hoping on the P5000 they release an update for spot colors. It's a 10 channel 360X nozzle printer so I have two empty channels to work with, which has come in handy already in preventing having to replace a printhead. I wonder why the speed differences between them though.

Anyway, Hopefully you find an answer, I've been curious. If I can find an afordable quality printhead I'd definitely use the machine. 

7 hours ago, TeedUp said:

@johnson4, thank you for your thorough replies.

I burned through several XP15000's (actually 4, but it seems embarrassing to admit that kind of failure) and a time hole nightmare of maintenance before thinking dual XP600's were an attractive solution. I knew the heads wouldn't last long, but the low head cost factored into the analysis.  I just didn't expect this high of a failure rate.

So you mention your 3x13" machines.  I thought you were leaning in to the P5000 (17") in your recent preference? Which Epson is your preferred workhorse?

It can be quite embarrassing but I try to put out there how it happens, we all do it. that machine ended up costing me a lot of money and a ton of time- over something silly that shouldn’t have happened. It was great and is still great- I just can’t find heads reliably anymore due to the aforementioned so I can’t keep using it. Even just two high quality heads like it came with. 

 One time i replaced a P800 ( with a new p800) because of a head strike that was my fault. It had ran out of film and I didn’t catch it in time( roll printing). 
 

I got the new one set up, yeah… working good. 30 seconds in I realized I didn’t put the film roll holder in the slots and had set it on top of the bracket. I realized this when It fell off, head strike and killed a brand new printer in less than one minute of printing.  
 

I think the xp600 is a great printhead- if you can find a legit printhead. Whatever I received with my printer when it was new, didn’t have an issue at all from them. I was shocked at the performance- until the printer ate the film. I printed 20-30 foot of prints at a time without a single nozzle dropping. 
 

the P5000/P6000 are the printers I’m talking about using, as I had hoped, they were practically made for DTF, down to the last detail. Just don’t use crap-ro-rip if you don’t want to wait all day on your prints.  
 

They are 9 pin, so no one can resell them without a lawsuit from Epson. However,  you can use them. I’d really love to see what the i3200’s are about, but I sincerely dislike all the ”fine tuning” Chinese machines need constantly. the four head machines seem nice, but at 25k+ in this economy and not looking to be a giant business, it’s really too far out there for me. 
 

An Epson works out of the box- period. When it is time to replace the head- replace the whole machine, it’s cheaper. No underbase issues or alignments- it just works. Always has been my go to, maybe I am biased on it. 
 

2 hours ago, ADH01 said:

I have aftermarket carts on the way...just impatient

 

Haha, yeah I know what you mean. I received the carts well before I ordered the printer. I hate waiting. 

1 hour ago, ADH01 said:

@johnson4 can the OEM carts be emptied and filled with DTF ink? If so, do you know of any instrictions to do so?

They have one way valves and a filter in the oem cart so it can’t be from the main port. If it ever reports empty to the printer it’s trash. 

You could very likely cut a small hole in the cartridge and bag, seal it to a filler hose and cap. It would likely work. Originally it’s vacuum sealed without air in the bag. 
 

aftermarket carts are about $100 a set delivered, I’d personally suggest that route to avoid problems. 

I also believe all the printheads are actually Epson. It’s the manifold, adapters, or rebuilt aspect that makes them poor quality. I think this non-Epson crap came from people who saw the aftermarket parts in the Epson head in rebuild and being uneducated on the matter. The Epson head technologies are patented, no one else in the world can make a piezo printhead without Epson’s permission. They sue over $5 ink cartridges, what do you think they would do over their printhead tech? 

no one can debunk this so it still circulates. 

think about it. If I can take bags of free trash printheads, clean and “ refurb them” and sell them at $100 a pop with a 80 percent failure rate, if I sold 10,000 of them this year that’s a million dollars profit. Now factor in the return rate, ( how many people eat the cost and don’t get a refund for various reason) they likely make over half a million a year. 
 

take this cheap printhead from a $70 home printer, and that is going to exacerbate the situation. So then this whole “ eco system” of printheads and models running these heads are run through the dirt, given a bad name. When other people see the profit in this and do the same,  it becomes impossible to get a quality printhead. 
 

that’s where it is right now in my opinion with this model. 

8 hours ago, TeedUp said:

I bought half dozen from China from several different sources for around $100 a pop.  I imagine pulls or factory rejects, although it's still not clear to me the supply chain of Chinese made non-Epson compatibles. 
 

I think they are all Epson made. The manifolds and adapters are not. The actual printhead is 100% only Epson. I think what is considered “ knock off” are printheads with different manifolds or adapters glued to the manifolds. These people pull the nozzle plates and forcefully clear them, and glue them back on. 90 percent of the time it doesn’t work right. 

I figured if 25% were good I'd come out ahead of $400- $550 for one domestic authentic. But so far NOT so good, still one left to test, but thoroughly disillusioned.  Also, so much wasted time with cleaning, nozzle checks, and failed print runs. 
 

I tried that too, all were junk except the  “new “ pulls from printers from audley. They glue adapters to the manifold. She said the printhead is pulled from a new printer and the manifold adapters are glued to it and shipped. 

Not even considering life expectancy, just out of the box, Im wondering if my failure rate is par for the course or perhaps just a string of bad luck? 
 

I think the market is oversaturated with the cheap xp600/fa1080. It’s because they were from discontinued cheap $70 home desktop dye based printers. It’s extremely profitable for them, then flooding the market with them dirt cheap is more profitable than tossing them when they are bad. I’m sure there is a percentage who don’t return them, or give up after the wall they face on returning cheap defective heads. 

I suppose many will say that's what I get buying from China, but I"ve had other good luck in the past.  Saved a boatload of money on the dual XP600 that I'm still coming out ahead on the total project cost so far, and mostly good luck on other things I've bought and sold through the years,

everything comes from China. It’s honest/dishonest sellers just like anywhere else. That cheap $30 knock off tablet or that $400 name brand- it’s all based on quality vs cost, not necessarily their capabilities. It’s all about finding the honest sellers selling the normal quality stuff, at a cheaper price instead of the garbage at a lower/mid price to make more profit. 

I had a pretty bad experience dealing with Audley sales and management on an aborted printer purchase.  No way I'm dealing with them again.  Maybe I'll look at some of the other "brands" that have at least a minimal reputation, unfortunately not a lot of faith in reliability there either,  no guarantees anyway. Probably will just spring for the real deal from Superstore, or other domestic reputable source,

me either, but that’s a large printer. I’ve tried to buy a 3rd audley A3 shaker for months now. But buying the printheads was simple, quick and easy. I also have a guy I’ve purchased parts from for years, like ink chips, cartridges, resetters. All that crap. Very honest, well priced and high quality. Personally they are a small reseller ( not audley) who understands quality matters for repeat customers. My film guy who uses train to get me film overseas in 20 days ( from ordered till delivered) is this same way, also a small business. He offered to go out of his way to help me import a large shaker very cheap with this train method even though that isn’t his business or normally sells those. He was serious and set me up with multiple options and even walked me through the importer process he uses- for free and offered to inspect the machines for me from over there before buying. I’ve purchased 400+ rolls of film from him in the last two years and never had a bad experience, he always takes care of it. Film is $65 a roll delivered and the best I’ve used from any supplier with a 20 day delivery timeframe. Even buying in the US with standard shipping I’m waiting 5-7 days. 

8 hours ago, TeedUp said:

...have to make decision soon.

I feel ya, I parked my xp600 machine. The original heads it came with were perfect, worked forever.  What killed them was a head strike due to the printer plate and it destroyed them and knock the carriage out of alignment. After fixing it and going through 4 “cheap” heads( that didn’t work) then the two heads from audley to finally get it working, it did it again for no reason within the hour. I got a few thousands prints from it as a whole but I’m done messing with it, i didn’t have the time anymore. I sell roughly $5,000-$10,000 gross in transfers a month small scale for other small businesses and focus on that instead. It’s not that it’s not good, I just don’t have time to deal with the Chinese printers and trying to source affordable quality parts. 
 

I instead went with an Epson that prints faster than the dual xp600 machine, even faster than the dual i3200 machines. Printheads are $1,000 direct from Epson and haven’t had to replace one yet, in over 6 months. Quality matters and I think OEM on the xp600 would make a huge difference. I just can’t pay the price for the lower quality printheads that were originally designed for a dye based $70 home printer at over $550 each. Especially if the machine keeps eating them. 
 

If it were me, I would try ( at least once) the OEM Epson original heads sold new from Epson to a printer manufacturer, not the printer pulls or cheap refurbs. If it wasn’t any or much different and keep having issues I’d ditch the printer. The idea is to focus on selling transfers, not fixing the printers. 
 

Epson will very likely soon release their own DTF printer, if there ink isn’t expensive or ends up with a chip bypass then I’m sure it will put a lot of these machines out of the door, so I’m avoiding investing much in the printer aspect.

I’m also 85 percent done designing my own 24” shaker that I could sell at a profit at $1,000( to give an idea of its price point to build). Modular with simple final assembly with pre assembled aspects, standard 120V outlet, no $1,200 shipping, no giant huge wasted space limitations or high/special power requirements. 

my point of the above- I was so frustrated with the costs, poor parts availability, and of course finding a unit to work fully properly as advertised and be delivered at a price point that I’m not constantly fully reinvesting ALL the profits making it all pointless was impossible, that I found my own way and put in less effort to do it myself. Coming from a guy who researches  and “wheels and deals”, and have done so since a small child. This time, it just always had a negative, an aspect that wasn’t as advertised, or overall a part would fail and literally couldn’t be replaced making it all pointless.  
I instead learned how to design parts, make 3D models, and sourced a cheap reliable company to bend, laser cut and powder coat my parts. So far it has been incredibly invigorating and successful, I can easy test each individual design instead of fixing the flaws of another machine.
 

I am constantly contacted to help problem solve. Design flaw with various machines and brands. 
 

im not falling for the same old game this industry has played for the last 15-20 years. That game is to make suppliers rich, while we think making the product is the bread and butter. It’s only beneficial for large businesses who gross 500K+, and still it’s a very large expensive. 

When an issue occurs it “isn’t the product, it’s the experience of the user”. That’s always been the excuse. I’m not a foot soldier who blindly follows command or listens to one point of view, I always stand back and look and fend for myself. 
 

the profit, it comes from, at least for me, not spending the high prices on machines and getting reliability so I can focus on the business, not the machines. If I paid full price for everything so far, I’d be almost broke after I factor in my federal/state tax rate. Not to mention the constant tinkering. Of course the learning curse and wasted dough finding the right machines and suppliers. 
 

That’s selling transfers at a mid tier price rate, far from the cheapest.

So overall, instead of being in your position I caved and went my own route, using Epson printers. I haven’t had to repair, problem solve, or literally do anything except print and customer service for the last 6 months. for 3 13” printers I get 63 linear foot an hour from them, cmyk+W. White or black only I get 126 linear foot. That’s with one of the shakers being my proto type for the aforementioned. That’s $220-$440 an hour of transfers from them combined.

All in it’s about 10k with redundancy in the event of failure. That’s roughly 60 hours of run time to pay for everything and break even, given no failures occurred which haven’t. New users starting out, even this is a lot any I didn’t start here. One unit is about $3,300 so it allows you to grow based on your needs. Not everyone will succeed even with the best printer, resell value on them is garbage so it saves losses too. 
 

it does consume more space this way and a bit more electric. But after paying 35% plus in taxes plus all other things considered, it gives me my profit margin and reliability I am looking for. 
 

that’s me though, because your specific situation seems to never end, at least when I was there. for me it was day after day feeling like that and wasting money day after day trying to just work. Eventually I saw the bill and failure rate and cut that out before it bled me dry. 
 

hopefully your decision comes easier, good luck! 

3 hours ago, TeedUp said:

preferably inexpensive, but so far multiple sources, all crap

 new $200-$220 from China. That’s the price form audley direct anyway. That’s for the “ new pulls”. 
 

I think the “genuine” new heads from Epson ( not printer pulls) are about $550. 
 

anywhere else and it’s refurb crap that didn’t work. 

57 minutes ago, John H said:

Hi I have a Okai printer that came with maintop, recently downloaded Cadlink. What printer did you use for the set up? Thanks John

Reaching out to cadlink would likely yield the fastest answer. If it's not supported they might work with you to support it. You need the Wide format edition of cadlink for any of the Chinese printers.

2 hours ago, Kristamarie said:

I have tested both ways.

What is the output setting on cadlink, rear feed?

9 hours ago, Kristamarie said:

I have an Epson XP-15000 converted to DTF and using Digital Factory v10 to rip.

All of the sudden I am running into paper jam issues when attempting to print anything using CADLink. I have attempted 3 different media types from both the tray and rear feeder.

I do not have issues printing a test page from Windows using either tray or rear feeder. I am bewildered and frustrated. Any ideas?

Reach out to Cadlink, they offer very quick support and can get you squared away quickly. 
 

I know the printer gives false paper jam errors sometimes, so there’s that. When test printing in windows are you using dtf film, or with Cadlink are you using paper? 

4 hours ago, Johnson said:

Hi DTF experts!,

The heat press conditions are different from each DTF film product, aren't they?

To find the optimized conditions, a user should find it with her/his DTF printer and heat press machine. 

Does anyone who uses a china DTF printer, film (Audley product) and hotronix heat press machine has the conditions(temperature and time)?

Any comment for above helps me.

Thank you in advance.

It’s universal for all film, the only difference is the hot/cold peel aspect. Meaning how long you have to wait before peeling after pressing. This is just the optimal release temperature of the film itself, to let go of the print. 
 

heavy pressure, 300-320F 15-20 seconds for cotton. 
 

the temperature comes from melting the adhesive if you have properly cured your transfer. Some melt at lower temperatures some at higher. If the ink or powder wasn’t cured correctly, you’ll get a large variable of issues that appear during pressing that may look like pressing issues.

overall, I have used at least 10 different brands of film and 4-5 brands of powder. I use 300F 15 seconds, peel in 3-4 seconds. Never had an issue in any of them. For polyester I use 265F. 
 

now if your pressure sucks when applying the transfer, your heat press is off in temperatures , or your heat press is inconsistent, you’ll also get issues. I used 2 cheap Chinese auto open presses from eBay for a few years which worked fine until they literally broke apart, now I use heat press nation heat presses going on two years. Both worked fine.  For DTF I modified them with an air cylinder so they close at 60 PSI and I get a perfect embedded transfer every time. I can peel cold peel film hot with that. 
 

Over a busy period earlier this year I hurt my back pretty bad. You have two “ large” muscles in your back and I am left handed so I pressed ( with very heavy pressure) thousands of shirts ( hundreds a day) with four heat presses. I’d guess about 5,000 presses in 30 days. I was out for over 4 months, unable to do much of anything. It caused a “ disc” to slip and bulge as well as this large muscle was heavily inflamed. To this day I am still not able to do things I was able to do before. I am only 30. 
 

but, I also weigh 220lbs and had to practically lift myself off the floor to close the presses. For me, this is a must to make sure that transfer is permanent and embedded throughly, also so I can peel faster. Using heavy pressure makes them softer, embeds the print and literally makes it feel like screen printing. 
 

so I spent a few hundred and modified my clam presses to be semi automatic and now I just push a button to close them, they open themselves when timer goes off. Andy recommended California air air compressor so I went with that, it’s super quite. 

 

anyway, it’s all about the pressure, if your transfer is cured properly and the melting temperature of your powder. Nothing else. It’s not brand specific or printer specific. 
 

I will say that when you are printing, your ink settings will vary greatly from brand to brand and type to type. Other than that though, that aspect is practically all the same. 

I am looking to see if anyone has any long term usage of a single suppliers products. Say ink and powder. 

For example, If I wanted a backup plan when my current supplier is out of ink and powder, where would you recommend and how long/how much have you used/ordered from that supplier?

Just looking to not run out of suppliers and keep an open door on finding good quality consumables. Here in a week I'll be in a serious pickle so I need to get something ordered soon. 

Thanks.

2 hours ago, tzeern said:

hi Johnson, how do I raise the printhead? I do notice that if I do not print for a few days, and after shaking the cartridge and doing 2-3 cleans, the print is still not optimal. Let me try to see how to maximise the usage in the meantime while I contemplate which printer to get after this.

That wasn't how it worked for me. Are you cleaning the wiper and capping station very well? It should all be black. The bottom of the printhead should only need cleaned once or twice a month. 

If you have had any head strikes at all that can cause permanent damage. Sometimes it does nothing, sometimes it takes a few head cleans, sometimes those nozzles never come back. It's also one of the only reasons I've ran across to make the bottom of the head need to be cleaned more often than once or twice a month, usually all the build up is on one side from the wiper but if you keep the wiper cleaned ( once before printing and once after) then it should be good. 

Could be a dry environment where you are or the ink you are using. The p400 is gravity fed so it's more finicky on the inks you use. 

As for the gear, it's on the side somewhere. I turn the printer off and rotate it to lift the head. I leave film in there so I don't get the bottom side wet with cleaner and just clean it. anything like a paper towel will introduce fibers and not clean it very well. You need something sturdy and lint free. 

2 minutes ago, tzeern said:

I managed to get hold of a p400. Can anyone advise how I should maintain it?

Should I put in cleaning cartridges at the end of each day, and do head cleaning the next day? Do I also need to remove the printhead for cleaning like the L1800?

Removing the printhead is a pain, you usually break the CSIC or damage the ribbon cable. The csic also holds the ink cartridges in place so the slightest damage will allow air to suck in instead of ink.  All you need to do is cut a small hole in the side of the printer and use a sponge tip swab to clean the bottom. That or as Sponge tip swab from the front and raise the printhead.  I’d never recommend daily or weekly removal of a printhead, especially on an Epson. The P series have a gear to rotate and raise/lower the head if needed. 
 

as for the carts I left my DTF ink installed. It doesn’t clog the head very easily if the printer is kept clean at the capping station. Generally up to two weeks of inactivity only required 1-2 head cleans to get going with ink installed. You also push air in there every time and spill ink around the port, it’s important to clean those every other day or daily to prevent caking and sealing issues. 
 

for storage I would do cleaning carts, but it’s a waste of time otherwise. Spending an hour cleaning and flushing out the ink with cleaner to turn around and do the reverse the next day or two is pointless. You need 3-5 consecutive head cleans to actually remove the ink. 
 

I ran 3 of the p400’s in the beginning. Made a caddy and just swapped prefilled carts every 30 prints. Worked great for 6-12 months. Eventually the head weakened on the cmyk channels after 5,000+ prints and stopped being able to lay down large blocks of solid color correctly. Oem inks still worked perfectly. I looked for a less vicious ink but didn’t turn up anything. 
 

i still have one new in the box, there is no way to sell them without getting ripped off unless it’s a face to face cash transaction so I just don’t sell it.

 Overall they are good printers. The head is $1,000 new so be careful. 

good luck! 

it literally makes me want to drive out to California and dish it out face to face to see what is needed to get results from EKprint. It’s just a small business vs large business and available resources type of thing. I dislike and always will dislike large businesses like cadlinks parent company. For EKprint I’d imagine selling the same software for 17 years it’s time for an update, or to shut the doors and let it be what it is. I hope it’s not the latter. 
 

sorry, this topic is like an open wound to me. 

10 hours ago, Jenn said:

Thanks for everything. I have a question about Cadlink. Does it have a content-based option like EK print? Where it lays less white ink over the darker areas. I'm also looking at PhotoPrint. But I'm going to do my homework on it first. I was also wondering about the speed of Cadlink. 

Cadlink has progressed, but still lacks in that area. It’s more “Advanced” making small things like simply selecting content based into a long chore on a per image basis. It’s kind of silly, Cadlink handles transparency rather poorly and picks up literally everything. 
 

In my opinion EKprint prints more solid colors and handles the underbase better than any RIP I’ve used. I LOVE EKprint. Unfortunately, EKprint is dated and they refuse to do anything about it. Cadlink added a printer I asked about within a few days. Ekprint, been going on 4 months now with it practically given up. The emails now are just “ I’m not ignoring you”. 
 

when it comes to color accuracy I have found ways around it with EK, but it’s still not perfect even running a profile. Ek has a built in “dated” color conversion profile table and really sucks at things like green and purple. 
 

if they updated the color system to allow users to alter it and find ways to support larger/Chinese printers then I believe they would be golden. I have personally offered them thousands to add support for one machine model, plus a promise of 4 licenses. I also said name your price for software/support that isn’t sold to others if that wasn’t enticing enough. Basically a custom built software for me in house only.  On their website they claim they will make custom software for your needs. I found this not to be the case. 
 

you don’t really have much option with that machine. Cadlink is the easiest,  quickest, most supported program. I don’t know about photo print, I know I reached out to everyone with a RIP I could get ahold of and never got a response or got a no. 
 

I don’t remember right off hand ( my memory is absolutely terrible- astonishing actually) but it was doing 16-21 12”x12” prints an hour depending on how you printed with it in Cadlink. 
 

overall I like supporting EKprint and dislike cadlinks business model and recent sell outs. But at the end of the day all I can run is Cadlink and deal with it or my production will suffer drastically from the use of anything else. 
 

It’s one of those 50/50 situations that if you blended the softwares, it would be perfect.