johnson4

3 hours ago, Jason said:

This forum has helped with troubleshooting on setting up a Mini DTG powder shaker. The main issue I'm having is the temperature setting. I've gone as low as setting it to 80 and it still is burning the film.  Do I just continue to lower the temperature until the powder melts correctlynwitbout burning or doesn't his seem very wrong?  My DTF is based off an L1800 and a full 13x17 inch print takes a solid 25 - 30 minutes. Is that the issue that maybe it's feeding too slow so myntemp needs lowered?

6 hours ago, Mr.Carter said:

After doing this you are ready to go into dtf with your cheap dtf printing guy

i have printed 30Rolls still working no printhead replacement yet

Nice, that’s a lot of film. Are you using the aftermarket carts with inline damper on this one? 

9 hours ago, Mr.Carter said:

Why to go for hardwork this is simple solution 

Makes sense, figured I’d ask if there was a reason for not sealing it physically. I agree, it’s time consuming and this looks like an easy solution. 

3 hours ago, Mr.Carter said:

Second thing is make your printer little bit tilted by adding 2x1inch wood block at the back side of the printer

Like this. so that even if there is 1 or 2 drop of leak during cartridge installation ink will not go towards headcable area it will get drip off from front side of the carriage 

Is placing a bead of silicone not an option to protect head cable? 

13 hours ago, Boyan said:

Can you post a link to the damper please? Great job. I have 2 dead printers because of this

I buy them from China, they are like $0.20 cents each before shipping. Just look for in line dampers. 

3 hours ago, Maurice penny said:

How long can a dtf transfer last after the powder is cured? ( I mean without applying to a t-shirt)

Some of mine are at 2 years without issue. If it’s cured, it’ll be fine. 

1 hour ago, redna379 said:

I'm just glad we seem to agree. Ever since I started I was not afraid of  "losing" time and money. Probably more than others, if you consider I'm not even doing this to actually run a printing business myself!!!!

But I love to learn and understand, that's probably the best part of my own job. And so I really appreciate peoples like you.

I really feel you about peoples not reading, you can just imagine how often that happens when you build custom complex systems where 90% of audience get stuck in the first 10% of key tasks....

Can you imagine several of my customers (who are mostly PRINTERS!) knows nothing about the difference between RGB and CMYK? But they keep asking why their supernicefluorecentRGB file which is so nice on their monitor is not printing as nice on their superexpensive 12232 channels printer....

Oh well. I learned several things and I'm just happy to Thank You for that. I am a sort of guru in many other things, so I hope I'll be able to pay you back in time, in some way. Who knows?

In case, let me know if you'll ever plan to pay a visit in Venice Italy, that's actually where I do live. Everyone wants to come here, at some point 

No worries I hope it helps some, if you have anymore questions don’t hesitate to shoot ‘em over. 
 

I tend to rant a bit sometimes when it’s something that I care about, like this stuff. 
 

color accuracy and vibrancy- man oh man it’s a whole slew of things, very unlikely related to what you offer. Kind of goes hand in hand with my previous point though, it’s never their own fault so they don’t look for internal answers, rather pawn that off on someone/something else. 
 

quite possibly, who knows what the future holds for us, I appreciate the gesture. 
 

To those who try, to those who do, to those with curious minds and only look for a guided hand at times instead of simple answers will prevail. 

There are suppliers who will help and truly give you all the answers and literally walk you through it without needing next to any knowledge on it, but they are much more expensive for that reason. Usually these people are rarely seen because they are always receiving the help they need. 
 

the people who try to skimp on cost or time… 

6 hours ago, redna379 said:

As always, thanks for the detailed post. I'd say this topic could be transformed in some sort of advanced tutorial of things new DTF users might not even have considered!
Especially because of this I wrote earlier:

All what we're discussing here falls precisely in that realm.

Back on topic, this makes perfect sense: I might really well start thinking at air as the main cause. I would think it can be a pretty common issue with cheaper converted printers.
I have to say this is tingling me in thinking at possible solutions, perhaps even silly ones!
Now I'm really just thinking out loud, given one of the main things is not to have air and not to suck debrees from tanks.

Wouldn't be nice to have some sort of "vacuum maker" to prevent air from flowing in the tube, even in case it's sucked from the tank?
Not this, but this pic gives the idea of the placement.

"Something" that sits across the tank and the damper which would be responsible to avoid any air to pass through, and/or to host filters to help stop any possible debree.
With something similar to "air locks" used for pipe systems, perhaps?
That sort of thing could be also an easier to access part where to do the vast majority of cleaning.

In general, making DTF's daily life easier in any possible way will, in time, pay back with a wider userbase and associated improvement of tools fo any kind.

Even finding a "simple" answer to a silly question like "what if I have to leave my printer for 2 weeks" would go in the same direction. There are just so many opinions out there, and often conflicting ones...

I'd say this is why I like posts like this. All is explained, perhaps even too much, but gives taste of real world... with pictures too!
And, most important, not just ending up with "what to do", but "why doing it". Makes a pretty good difference!
 

 

Why is so much more important than how to me, because each scenario will truly have a variable outside of a typical procedure. Knowing why let’s you adjust to those variables in real time, instead of guessing or not knowing an outcome/reaction to each action you take. 

I think overall when you make a system more complicated, you are setting it up for more potential issues- no matter the benefit initially. While it could help, in the long run it comes down to maintenance. 
 

to me, the solution is rather simple in design if we are talking about ideas. 
most higher end machines utilize these design fixes. Low end machines, do not include them intentionally. 
 

when it comes to air in the lines, it’s easy to prevent that with nothing more than making sure all connections are sealed and set correctly. From here, just use a large syringe and suck from the damper until all air is removed. Push back a very small amount while holding the damper facing port up, just enough for the damper to close. Then wipe it with a paper towel and reinstall. No more air in this line unless there is a leak, or it’s ran out of ink. of course exterior issues like clogs, or poor ink flow can reintroduce air from the printhead. It’s unavoidable and simply a reaction to another issue caused by the user/ink. 
 

for the sediment, just install the ink port about 1” from the bottom. Install a mixer that runs in the bottom, like a magnetic mixer or some form of ultrasonic mixer. Then use a paddle in the main area above the bottom. or cover and shake daily manually. 
 

shaking will also introduce microscopic air bubbles into the ink but it’s minimal and unavoidable without using degassed cartridges. Just wait 10 minutes after shaking before proceeding. I do it end of day and beginning of day for all white ink. 
 

replace dampers regularly, once every 60-90 days- depending on ink maintenance and printer use to prevent the “sludge” from the white ink from getting into the printhead. 
 

it’s like owning a vehicle- knowing when to do basic maintenance is easy, beyond that, knowing when to clean it, rotate the tires, check the timing belt and change the differential fluid all come down to experience or following a well written owners guide- with variable options based on usage. 
 

it would also require people to be honest to themselves and to those who try to help and not be hard headed against ideas or being wrong- these people will keep running against the grain, until they go through the motions internally and find their own way at a much higher cost- if they make it. 
 

If you keep it clean, flush the lines/entire ink system on a regular basis BEFORE there is a problem, you’ll usually be fine. The longer it sits between heavy use, the more maintenance you’ll need sooner. 
 

it’s like any other thing really, experience is required. I can’t pick up a CNC machine and be perfect out of the gate, or become a wood worker. Running a 6 color screen-printing job and keeping alignment- etc. It takes skill and experience. 
 

95 percent of people won’t even take the time to read a 4 minute post that is a response to their help request. If it’s a video, absolutely will.
 

I don’t know how many times I get asked something I have already said multiple times in the same post/response- usually immediately after it’s said. With that, for those who do, a guide would be great. But it still boils down to the same issue and ultimately won’t end in success most of the time. 
 

even with a guide it takes time and money- most want to skimp on both. Long term, it’s not easy. Short term, peice of cake. 
 

you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. 
 

first hand undeniable ( and non arguable) experience is required to truly move forward. Tips and hints are great for those who try, but it gets very muddled along the way. Those of us who do try, well we will figure it out one way or another. 
 

everything I know cost me something, mainly time and money. Fortunately that equates to my current experience which I would rate a 5/10, 10 being a guru. Without this cost, I wouldn’t know what I do, even if it was told to me, because I would take it lightly without my own personal investment. 
 

I do want to point out, 5 head cleans in a week isn't that much. Generally I do about 3-4 a day. 2 to get going, and 1-2 throughout the day as needed.  When I change dampers, I usually do 5-8 strong cleanings depending on to remove the air from the system. whatever it takes to fully remove the air from the system. That is after I prime the dampers.

Your head cleans should be based from the nozzle checks you do, and printing with clogged/blocked nozzles can and does damage the head relatively quickly. Nozzle checks are the #1 way of determining the condition of the entire thing and helps break down where the problem is from one nozzle check to the next. I do not see any of that posted.

So for example, if you changed the dampers, did 1-2 head cleans and that was that- you very likely didn't pull all the air out of the system, allowed air to remain in there and could potentially damage the new printhead again. running the WIMS doesn't do that for you entirely. 

When you have a shared capping station, like this machine likely has, it will pull from the easiest flowing location first. Air can act like a " block" and then that channel doesn't actually get flushed/purged as you would think, leaving an issue like this as well. with individual tanks it makes it obvious, with a shared ink tank it isn't and easily not noticed- which can make or break the whole situation. 

So for example, On my machine it shares 2 channels per " capping pad". If one channel is clogged, and the other isn't, it's going to pull from the easy channel more, if not entirely. However, if there is an issue, it will suck the one channel with no/poor flow from the other,  when removed from vacuum it will suck air right back up into the head of the slower flowing/no flowing channel if the ink isn't flowing properly. If it sits at all, high potential for a damaged printhead. If any of air is getting in around the dampers, connections, or anywhere else at all, it will continue to do so without properly sucking the ink. Without a seal, there is not going to be a good flow of ink. I have on numerous occasions, especially with aftermarket dampers ran into this. 

Air is the enemy here and making sure it's entirely gone is the #1 thing to do all around to run and operate these machines effectively and efficiently. 

It's very likely something within the message, something that was looked over, because if it were all on point, it would work if the printhead is new and not a dud. 

on a side note, there is a white layer on the bottom of that ink tank, if it's there, it will also be in the ink lines. With a printer like this I had to physically shake the tank all the time or else this happened, and what you described. it can begin after one day. 

The #1 thing I have found to be the reason for someone having no issues, to a ton of issues that new parts don't fix is going to be the accumulation of the white ink because it's not properly taken care of. 

3 hours ago, redna379 said:

Also, both dampers takes the white from the same tank. Once more, the curious thing is still why it happens on one channel only. If debrees, I'd expect a little to happen on both, while today's test shows a huge difference between channel 1 and 2

Interesting. 
 

well that doesn’t leave much left to go from,  maybe an air leak for that channel. 

Ink- Your ink system. 

Did you clean the ink tanks? The white ink settles and creates a sludge at the bottom of whatever it is in. I just went through this with both my my machines. 

It's enough to kill a brand new head, or at least make it do this. 

I had to flush my lines, and in your case you would need to clean your ink tanks, and then reload and do it again. I had to manually ( gently) clean the head because the white pigment sludge had filled up the damper and went into the head. 

Everything is peachy. 

Sounds like it is likely the ink tank/ink lines at this point. 

1 hour ago, Ashley Gault said:

How are u able to use the acrorip program? I've downloaded it but it says I need the dongles for it. Did you have to buy those or know a way around that? Also my film isn't going through and I have tried everything possible. Please help! 

There isn't a free RIP program out there, unless it's pirated and illegal. Almost always some issue with those from what I have read.  They all need purchased for a genuine copy. Cadlink is the most user friendly print ready system, Which I would recommend trying to 15 day free trial of. 

16 hours ago, redna379 said:

Update:

At the end, I ordered a new printhead. Did a last test at 1440x1440 with old one, bands were visible and white was also very "washed".
New printhead, tested at 1440x720... perfect!

So, the good news is it actually was the printhead, and now I HOPEFULLY learned what not to do.
Considering at the end it costed me around $350, I'd say this wasn't a bad cost to learn a lesson

Now I have the old printhead, I'll probably make use of it to experiment cleaning methods. The hard part will really be how to check how it's doing, as the only way I can imagine is to re-install it in the printer. Would be nice to be able to refurbish it into a spare part.

Thanks for the update.
 

Yeah it’s a good way to test it, but you also have to factor in the damaged nozzles that can’t be recovered even when cleared, then as well the specific situation of it being exposed/sitting compared to just typical clogging during normal use. 
 

Over the years I found testing best to be done in real world use before removing and tossing the printhead. 
 

for example when I started- long story short I went from one machine to 4 in about a year. Mostly for reliability because business relied on it and I had to “ learn” as time went on. 
 

even though it was bad timing and silly to diagnose and spend days or weeks testing during “ business” , I had to do it in the real world situation, any other time and I had botched results. 

during these times is when I was able to really debunk all the stuff people parrot on the internet and learn what did work and what did not, and when to not even waste time on it. 
 

people are mixing various methods of printing and cleaners. Alcohol or windex for example was widely used in OEM situations, the OEM ink is composed of different carriers and this would help. Some people parrot this and boom, everybody does it. 

Different inks will use different carriers, UV, DTG, DTF, Solvent- etc will all use a cleaner that is often similar to the carrier. 
 

the issue with water based inks is the BASE is water based and water soluble, while the non water based pigment is suspended in this water soluble base it in itself is not water soluble- even though it’s carrier is. 
 

so carrier A SUSPENDS pigment B so it can be diluted and washed down the drain.

Once carrier A has been removed via evaporation it leaves pigment B solidified and no longer water soluble. 
 

Since the water soluble portion has been removed it is no longer the same situation and no longer functions the same cleaner wise. 
 

many times the original carrier A can be reintroduced and work in breaking down pigment B. Cut to the alcohol and windex theory. 
 

Unfortunately, that isn’t necessarily the case with water based inks.

It’s why when you paint your house or use acrylic paint you layer and blend while the paint is relatively fresh, but doing so years or months later it doesn’t work so well. Before fully cured, this new layer of ink can generally introduce the original carrier A and cause a blending effect. It’s why they suggest a 2nd coat within X time. 
 

with inks, it works the same way. Once the ink is fully dried, it will require something stronger or an undiluted solvent to break this stuff down. Like for house paint or acrylic, you can use paint remover and within minutes it just falls off, but is unrelated to the original carrier and breaks down the ink differently. Originally, it’s intention is to keep it intact, while the stronger is designed to keep the original substrate intact instead. 
 

so for our scenario, you are going to have a couple things to cause issues. Clogs from air drying the carrier in some form, or clogs from too large of a solid/pigment size, generally over 20 micron. Usually this is from poor ink quality, poorly maintained ink,  or debris in the ink system. 
 

not cleaning properly, things like the wiper, capping station, or printhead face can and does introduce dried ink to the printhead during use/cleaning cycles. It can also allow air into the system when not in use. I have to clean my wiper twice in an 8 hour period during use to prevent from reintroducing dried ink to the printhead. Not a big deal and takes 3 minutes. 
 

if you use low quality ink it can clog dampers or otherwise create ink flow issues. When this occurs it will try to “ suck” during cleaning cycles and this will inherently equalize with air going back into that channel, or ink/crud from the capping station.
Sometimes an early symptom is color mixing, or colors that show good nozzle checks but then later drop out. 
 

anyway, without going into every detail or scenario my point is there are a ton of variables. You can’t go “ gung ho” and go straight to the strongest cleaner. As mentioned before, the strongest cleaners will also quickly and almost inevitably destroy the printhead. It’s why “ big shops” just replace them as consumables, because it’s been proven long term to be a waste of time, money, resources. 

 

preventative care and properly cleaning the machine before an issue occurs is the best way to prevent issues long term. After that, there isn’t a magic solution other than “ baby” the printhead with a mild cleaner from the inside out and hope it works. 
 

the cleaners and various solutions I make for myself use similar base compounds, only slightly changed for its specific purpose. They range in strength leading up to “ clog buster” or “ last chance fluid” like many suppliers sell. 
 

they call it that because it very well will destroy the printhead, so you are using it as a “ well if it works…” with no expectation that it will. 
 

All in all, the printhead can’t handle the strength of cleaner required to immediately clear these clogs in our usage without damaging the head itself, that’s why if it doesn’t work or progress with mild cleaners over time or it isn’t clearly apparent it is helping, it’s usually a lost cause. 
 

I know looking for a magic solution is ideal and would save thousands, but other than a learning experience it’s already been done from well equipped facilities and the end result is mild cleaners or “ last resort” fluid( which again will vary on ink type). You just can’t deteriorate pigment B without also doing the same to the printhead. 
 

the real answer to the savings is proper care and maintenance. When you mess up, it’s usually a lost cause and a learning experience. 
 

remember, piezo crystals that control and actuate the ink flow rely on the ink flow to cool them. That’s why printing ( not cleaning) with clogged nozzles can and will damage them. It’s also why if you have a specific nozzle ( like one spot in a nozzle check) consistently giving you trouble, it’s because it’s weakened- which is unrecoverable long term and will keep coming back if everything else checks out. 
 

I wish you luck, I recommend testing in-use but learning/testing hands on  is always a positive. 
 

happy printing and I hope your original purpose of your program does well. 

18 minutes ago, TeedUp said:

I don't have personal experience, but I've heard that if you enjoy white ink clogging your nozzles, then you'll have a barrel of fun with liquid adhesive clogs. Also not sure if true, but I've read that you're locked into the printer vendor for supplies.

Yeah, I mean I seen this over a year ago and if it’s not more dominant in the market than it is, it’s for a reason. 
 

3 hours ago, northafricanwonder said:

Hi,

I was thinking of starting a DTF business but due to not being able to provide proper ventilation , I decided to back away and decide look to get ready to press DTF films. 

My question is , is the process of pressing the already cured DTF film onto the t-shirt or apparel release toxic fumes?

I personally do not believe so. once cured properly, there is no smoke, no smell, nothing coming from the shirt/transfer. Sometimes a bit of moisture comes from the garment if you pre press. 
 

For me all of the smoke comes from the ink and initial melting of the powder during production. 
 

for example, if I press 200 of 12”x12” in a 5 hour period in a smaller 10x10 room without ventilation I smell nothing, I see nothing. People from outside the room who enter the room- nothing. It doesn’t mean nothing is there, but it’s been 2 years and I’m fine. 
 

like HTV, sublimation, laser transfers, DTG- ALL have some form of smell or smoke come from the final press. So if I had to guess, I’d say it’s fine IF they are properly cured. 
 

The main thing is the ink and it’s carrier. It’s poisonous if absorbed into the body. Once cured properly, it is removed entirely from the transfer and goes through the ventilation on the machines making them. 
 

Without having the air collected and tested no one will know 100%, but I don’t see it being any more harmful than any other process. 
 

you could look into TPU temperatures and ventilation requirements from 3D printers using the same stuff, have the air tested or even the finished transfer. but overall when in doubt do without. It’s your health and your decision, I seriously doubt anyone has tested this. DTG could steam up a room when curing, and people just said “ it’s water” when it wasn’t. Same for screen printing, pretty much anything. 
 

A good example, there is a manufacturer around 50 miles away which has been open and operating for almost 40 years. I forget what they make. Recently they have been testing the air and found there are known cancer causing particles in the air from this plant. Slightly over the legal limit and I live out around a ton of trees in a small town type of setting. So- my point is- even the air you breathe outside isn’t likely to be “ safe”. This “ legal limit” when exposed to continuously or for extended periods, is known to cause cancer. They didn’t factor in that people would be sitting in the stuff 24/7 since the “limit” was with 8 hour a day exposure. they are reevaluating. 
 

The tested “Safe” drinking water from a filtered well that fed about 80-100 homes outside of the previous area I mentioned- at least 8 of them were family/acquaintances. Within 2 years of moving in- 5 out of 8 ended up with cancer in various forms within that time period. This is from otherwise healthy people who only had one common denominator.

My point is, who knows. Even with testing and regulation- it doesn’t mean it is safe. Personally I accept this risk daily. I’ll also personally pay the price if I am wrong. 

Ironically I just downloaded the trial of this software. Thanks for all the info.

White is much easier to fade out by design with using transparency in the design itself. Color is a bit more difficult given the RIP you use and how much of the transparent it picks up, but you are going to have issues around those edges with durability as the white ink fades out into the color, halftoning is the best way to make it work in my opinion so you maintain your adhesive layer. The major issue is keeping the transparency in-line with the white so that excess adhesive isn't pickup up where practically no ink is placed. 

The main thing is are you doing it for yourself, or for a customer. If it's for yourself from a self made design, it's actually pretty easy to accomplish. If you are trying to do this with customer images and get hit with them often, it's a huge PITA and not worth the time. The RIP will change how the image looks and some people will not like it, while others might. Recreating these images on future orders exactly also becomes a problem, especially if you end up with tons of variations and hundreds of images over the lifetime of the customer. 

When doing things for myself I can spend hours on them and it not be a big deal, for a customer if they are not paying for the work ( most won't) then I simply deny the job or request for approval with it's removal/basic adjustment on my side. Get hit with 50 different images of a whole roll of prints like this that are due to be made and delivered in 2 days over and over again, I think you'll start to agree it's not that easy. 

I'll check out the RIP though, hopefully it can make life easier as you suggest. 

4 hours ago, johnson4 said:

They use liquid adhesive instead of powder. 

The liquid adhesive is printed from the printhead. 

From everything I know it sucks.

While my standard powdered prints have gotten rather soft with experience and good supplies/tuning my machines they continue to get softer as washed/worn. I feel for durability reason a liquid adhesive that can't really get down into the fibers isn't going to work well, or for long. They sell only the liquid adhesive, but it's very expensive and requires dedicated channels for it. Some rips can handle it. Color, White, then Adhesive- 3 layers. 

I personally think it's just a gimmick, a company trying to get a quick cash grab. But it may have advanced in technology since I last looked, I'm not sure. I'll stick with the standard way for now, most of my customers seem happy with it and it works well. I have shirts going on 70+ washes and still look/feel good. When you compare it to traditional methods that deposit ink instead of dying the fabric, It's very close and achievable to be softer than things like plastisol, water-based inks, vinyl and all that stuff.  The only thing in my eyes that beats it is sublimation in terms of hand feel. 

Just my 0.02, Don't let me stop you from searching. 

Good luck!

8 hours ago, anum11 said:

Has anyone seen it? I tried with dupont pretreated t-shirt as wet, and dtf printout without powder as wet, pressed together it is okay at first. But after one wash it has some issues like some of print leaving shirt making some parts air filled under print, if you get what i mean. Like it is going to peel off.

Has anyone seen a proper one? If yes, what is the catch?

 

They use liquid adhesive instead of powder. 

15 hours ago, MMonk said:

Hello, new to the DTF. My question is when I print on dtf paper looks great but when I go to press it turns image black why is it doing this?

Do you have a white underbase?

1 hour ago, starmate said:

Hello everyone,

Can anyone tell me if I can remove the cartridges from the printing tray area if I don't use the printer for a while ?

If yes, how can I do that ?

Shall I remove the cartridges and put the caps back, so ink will not dry ?

What about the print head ? How can I clean them ? I created cleaning solution from ammonium glass cleaning fluid (1 cup) and still water (5 cups).

I wanted to use a paper towel, soaked with cleaning solution, that I'll put under the print head. On tray area, I wanted to do the same and clean the area like that...

If I do that, how can I know if some ink remains within the print head area ?

The soaked paper towel would stay only during the cleaning process. I was hoping that the gravity would allow the cleaning solution to run from tray area to print head... I wanted to repeat the process until the paper towel under the print head is clean (I would use multiple soaked paper towel).

Do you guys have any other alternatives ?

Thanks in advance for your replies,

Jon

Personally I wouldn’t do this. 
 

depending on the model you use cleaning cartridges or disassemble the ink system and manually clean it. Once all the ink system is clean, you let the cleaned ink system and cleaner filled cartridge’s clean the printhead. 
 

make sure all the ink ports are cleaned before doing any of that and the ink Bay Area if needed. I use foam tip swabbed damp with cleaner. Make sure the capping station is fully cleaned, as well as the bottom of the printhead first. 
 

The whole glass cleaner stuff doesn’t work, I tried that for quite awhile. It doesn’t break down the ink well, if it all. I lost 4 printheads using similar cleaners over the period of 6 months. You need something else more than water, and don’t leave it inside the printer. Water evaporates and glass cleaner is also made to evaporate. It actually dries it out more quickly than just water. So in the situation your going to want a different fluid after cleaning to leave in the system to preserve the machine. 
 

things like storage solution or wet cap solution contains wetting agents and prevents things from drying out. Use this after everything is clean inside and out. 
 

As for completely removing the ink remnants, the only way to do that is replace the ink system entirely. Even after fully flushed, even for hours, there will still be some remnants inside the printhead and other components. The wet cap fluid keeps it all wet and prevents evaporation, this preserves and protects the machine from those ink remnants and the environment it sits in, including colder weather. 
 

it takes hours to clean and prepare a machine for storage, if not done properly within a few weeks-to months it will ultimately have permanent issues requiring part replacements. That’s why any used DTF/DTG printer has little value because it’s almost certain it will need a new ink system, printhead, capping station unless flushed and prepared properly. 
 

I’ve followed the above method of mine and have let them sit in freezing weather at times, as well as hot and dry weather, 6+ months later load ink and works perfectly, not a single clogged nozzle or issue. I’ve also ran at least 6 printers now that haven’t had any clogging issues or failures at all since using this type of cleaner. 
 

Following the same but only using a DIY cleaner like you have described, I had to replace the ink system and printhead, and the capping station due to dried ink and permanent clogging. 
 

generally the machines are worth investing in proper cleaning/storage fluids. I know I tried this and thought the same thing about cleaner at one point. After testing, it killed almost everything unless it was used to simply wipe stuff off. 
 

while glass cleaner does have one ingredient that works well, the rest of the ingredients making up the glass cleaner be has actually created a negative effect. 
 

If you go that route, just avoid the glass cleaner and get the ammonia and a humectant. Find the proper dilution, too much will kill the head surface coating. 
 

good luck! 

6 hours ago, redna379 said:

Hi,

Something sounds wrong. An Epson ET 2850... for DTF?
Aside from the issue of not being able to load PET sheets, ET 2850 looks like a normal ecotank printer with 4 colors.
Could work for sublimation, but it simply cannot be used for DTF if it misses the ability to add white ink somewhere.

I agree with this entirely-

 but it is possible to do cmyk only DTF. Black ( composite) only ink works well without white ink. Some people use CMYK only on white shirts- but I don’t recommend it. 

9 hours ago, redna379 said:

"Don't let it sit". I guess that was my main mistake.
When I performed the deep clean, I waited to have something to print before replacing inks. Which means I literally left it in there, without any ink, for a good coule weeks
I still find curious that this affected only the white nozzles, though. But this is how you learn!

BTW, just for the sake of knowledge, I was looking at this interesting short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-638bI-YHy8
Seeing how actually things are inside is always interesting. As my next step will probably be to purchase a new head, I might want to replicate that disassembly on my current one just to check if I can in any way SEE what I've done and where.

Finally, I'd like to thank you for your help. Not only to me, but in this forum in general.
I see how passionate you are, but also how much time you spend to write proper and exhaustive replies.
For peoples like me, who rather than a "plug and play" answer prefers a deeper discussion that leads to actual understanding, more "verbose" answers are just the best.
I value time a lot, and for this I want to thank you for yours!

 

Yeah, it’s going to depend on the cleaner though, some might be fine but I’ve ran across this several times and it usually causes some issue especially if left sitting. 

my solution for me I mix distilled water and vegetable glycerin for “ storage solution”.  I used this because it’s lubricating and helps seal. It’s a humectant as well so it remains “wet”. I wanted the fluid to have an ink like consistency as well so this is what did that. I didn’t want leaking or “thin” fluid going places it shouldn’t.  It keeps from evaporating or freezing with this mix as well. It basically keeps it all from drying out and makes everything seal well. 
 

for my flushing solution I take the same and add 8 percent concentrated cleaner. This can also be left in, does no harm and helps break down stubborn clogs or “sludgy” ink lines. 6+ months going through a a freezing winter in a non climate controlled environment and it was 100% after loading ink. 
 

My cleaner that I use to quickly clean the capping station, printhead exterior, wiper etc is the same, except with 20 percent concentrated cleaner. 
 

for heavy issues, clogs, or stubborn cleaning I use a 50/50 mix and wet cap( no more than 5-10 minutes at a time, max 8-10 in the printheads lifetime). This will melt dried ink right off of anything except fabric. 
 

i tested this a lot and it’s been fanatic to have a tested cleaner for every situation. I no longer have issues like this. I also use the same quality ink and do proper daily maintenance. 
 

I think the main damaging aspect was the bad ink. After that letting the clogs sit instead of daily cleanings to let it slowly work out the clogs. 2-3 head cleans a day for several days. If it doesn’t help, it’s permanent. If you “manually” do anything pushing through the head you’ll have nothing but problems moving forward, from my experience. 
 

 But letting it sit and allowing the clogs to solidify more or running the printer with clogs causes overheating and permanent damage to the piezoelectric crystals and kind of makes it permanent, if there was a chance of flushing the clogs to begin with. 
 

usually the clogs are in the nozzle plate or the manifold if dried ink fell down in the ink lines somewhere. If you take it apart and rinse it off and hold it up to a light you’ll see the clogged nozzle holes. at this point reattaching the plate is nearly impossible, even with proper adhesive from what I’ve found and read. Even the people you see refurbish them as their job and do this it’s like a 60/40 success rate. 
 

no problem at all. I do love what I do. If it’s an experience I am happy to share it, if it’s something I’ve researched I’ll say and share that too. 
 

I personally think “ plug and play” answers actually hurt more than helping. It teaches people to blindly follow without question. It also allows people who want to pretend they know things or are still in the process and haven’t experienced it fully yet swear by their findings- and don’t follow up when they find out they are wrong or give any reason as to why or how they believe that. 
 

while everything you read is nothing more than an opinion, I feel like explaining why is more important so the person can form their own and spark curiosity. This gives tools and individual points to look for and verify, instead of blindly following. 
 

90 percent of the time( in my eyes) those straightforward answers in situations like this only lead to failures. If someone isn’t willing to invest the time needed to properly invest and learn something and just look for an answer, they ultimately never reach their end goal. 
 

now pointing them in the direction so they can fully find their own answer based on their own experiences- it’s a priceless knowledge- as long as while they are still in this process they don’t spread misinformed information because they are not finished learning about it yet themselves. 
 

I rarely give a short and sweet answer, I just wouldn’t answer. I personally feel like if we can’t invest the time into a conversation, into whatever we are doing, we shouldn’t answer or be doing it. The aforementioned, that actually was my version of short and sweet, haha. 
 

Anyway take what I say with a grain of salt and go out and find your own experiences and answers. If something I’ve said helps, that’s great and I’m glad to help, but they are just my experiences and I could also be wrong in some aspect, or it not apply to you  in your specific circumstances. 
 

In todays world, too many people pretend for whatever reason. It’s important to weed out the BS. 
 

good luck, follow ups are appreciated if and when you move forward. 
 

1 hour ago, redna379 said:

Oh, one more. This sentence of yours made me curious.
If even an Epson cleaner is going to kill the printhead, is there ANY liquid you know about that can be properly used to perform such deep clean methods?
I see several peoples talks about "cleaning liquid", the "transparent one", the "cleaning solution".... but never, and I say never, I found someone suggesting something specific.
Like simply telling what those liquids actuall are, for instance!

I make my own actually. I found most "purchased" cleaners were too weak to do the job and on the flipside some were too strong. I use 2 different cleaners. One for cleaning, for things like the bottom of the head, wiper, etc. and one for flushing. 

When it comes to flushing , Ultimately you can simply use water. Disconnect the dampers from the head, flush it all out with water until clean( everything but the printhead). Then you can run flushing solution through there if you want. Then reattach to the head and keep using the flushing solution. When done, replace with ink. Don't let it sit. 

Flushing solution works well also. After that, Cleaning solution is meant to be used to clean the ink, things like the ports, capping station and wiper, not actually to be flushed and sit in the printhead. 

Generally, these things don't work for clearing clogs if that is the goal. They are just meant to clean dried ink, capping stations, etc. If you are trying to flush a clog, you are generally wasting your time. Once something bad hits the head, it's done. Period. Some people say they save face, but in the end they always have issues and the printhead ultimately does not perform properly or last for any reasonable period of time. I know, I've tried on at least 25 printheads. I documented and followed logical procedure and cleaners and not just random things. While you can save them sometimes( very seldom) , IF standard head cleans don't work and there isn't anything else wrong, It's just time to replace the printhead. 

There are " clog busters" but those are just the same thing as Epson's stuff basically, which melts the ink. Any cleaner this strong will also damage the printhead. 

It's just one of those things people have to go through and waste time and money on to believe. You think you have results until you don't, and most people won't admit to it. If they do, It's likely something several head cleans and capping station soaks with fluid would have fixed. 

Live and learn, those are my experiences and not my uneducated opinions.  

8 hours ago, redna379 said:

1st of all, thanks for the replies.

Sadly this is ok. The main thing is the banding is happening only on whites, while if a machanical problem would exists also CMYK would had been affected. But they're perfectly ok.

I'm sorry in advance, this is going to be a long post... but I'd like to to give a full background about WHY I'm doing as I described. This can also work to present myself a little more in depth

I am a developer, it's about 20 years I work in creating online design tool for the printing industry. I am not a printer myself, however as automating processes is a big part of my tasks, knowing the technologies is something I just need to do. And I also find this extremely interesting!
So it happens that I purchased semi-professional machines just to test and learn: it happened ranging from sublimation to lenticular prints (which I did at home using a 3880).

About a year and a half ago, at the FESPA, I learned about DTF. What I noticed immediately was the potential, however I also noticed how immature the market still was.
There were no solid DTF brands, neither for prints nor for inks nor for films. It felt like a very promising technology starting to go from DIY to the pro market.
For that reason I decided to purchase something to test on, with the main idea of learning pros and cons and be able to properly talk about it to my actual userbase, which is the professional printing industry (mainly large format, but not only).

I saw that THE machine used by a vast majority of ppls was a converted L1800, and there I started.
I ended up purchasing a modified L1800 from a Chinese company named Procolored, and from them I also purchased their inks and pet film in rolls.

All this intro to really say one thing: I am NOT printing much, as I'm not a printer. However, learning how to deal with maintaining such machines when rarely used was pretty beneficial for my main goal, which is being able to promote DTF itself if I feel it has a potential for a customer of mine.

So: I purchased that printer past November, and it ran pretty good with the very 1st set of inks provided by Procolored.
Everything was pretty good, results met the expectations.
About 2 months ago, as expected, white started to be too watery. It literally needed full shaking and a full head cleaning every day before printing.
Even that was expected, I wanted to see how long such inks could actually last. Answer is in the range of 5-6 months max, with proper daily maintenance.
It was time to look for other inks, as by that time the one provided by Procolored was the only one I ever tried

At the FESPA of this year I saw DTF kinda exploded, but 90% of companies selling DTF equipments really had no idea of what they were selling. This ranged from poorly modified Epson printers to mysterious inks always claimed to be the only one working with their printer. But no details, very often.
When I say "they had no idea" I literally mean that: picture an international Tradeshow where they're almost all baking the powder without any suction system (thus releasing the exhalations in a closed space full of visitors), or they're hot peeling films meant to be cold peel, of having powder shakers with NO COVERING causing so the powder to literally flow as a cloud of dust (again, in a closed space full of visitors).

This happened because a lot of sellers wanted to follow the DTF hype somehow. My main concern there was that, if sellers have poor knoledge of the technology, eventual buyers not being able to reach the results they were hoping for would just blame the technology itself, rather than the poor knowledge of it their sellers actually had.

Still, several serious pals were there too. I was specifically looking to create a possible good bundle of manufacturers to propose a solid combination of printer/ink/film for different levels of printshops.
So, of course, I was looking for inks. I think I wrote about it in past in this forum. DTF inks are sort of misterious items when you ask around. I met several companies working to release their own, and very few actually giving details or willing to test in general.

This is when I had a proposal of testing a new white ink from a Corean company. As my machine is meant for testing, I agreed in taking the chance.
To do that I completely flushed my old white remains, did the deep head clean, replaced the dampers and tested the new ink.
It was fine for about 2 prints. Then it started by release VERY little white. It was bad, and in case you're curious, now I also learned why.

In short, they always tested their inks against the I3200 heads. Still Epson I thought, and also a more "pro" machine than the L1800. But I was wrong. There is a key diffrences I know learned.
L1800 has a minimum ink droplet volume of 1.5 pico litre.
I3200 has a minimum ink droplet volume of 3.5 pico litre.
And that was the thing: an ink created mainly for the I3200 was simply too "thick" for the L1800. Result for me was obviously a clogged printhead.

And so, finally, we're at today.

After the clog, I decided to purchase again a small bottle of white from Procolored. At least, it already proved to work properly with my printer.
Moreover, as I had to flush old inks a couple times for this testing, and also had a clogged printhead as a result, it was a possibly good test to see IF it was possible to deep clean properly enough to be able to return to the initial stage.

I changed my white dampers again, flushed a Corean ink out, cleared the tubes and deep cleaned the printhead again.
What I used is the 6022803 A29 Epson liquid, which is used to unclog the print heads, and although it is also used to clean dry ink, it is more suitable for purging the internal ducts of the print head. It also serves as a general cleaning liquid.
At the end of all of this, I reloaded the original white from Procolored. And I had the unexpected results I postead about.

Phew, it looks like I wrote much more than what I wanted to!

I will perform the other tests you suggested later today, I'll let you know.
Hope I have not bothered you too much with all of the above, but at least it should answer to your questions about what/why I did things.

Thanks!

Not at all, details help paint the big picture and puts me in your shoes in some way. 
 

From your description I would consider your printhead bad. 
 

All of us tested inks, because who knows what works and doesn’t compared to claims vs results. The importance of sharing data so we avoid and do not promote poor products. I as well have experienced similar issues, most of us have. 
 

In my honest opinion, your scenario sounds like the breeding ground for issues, or worst use scenario. 
 

given it’s a testing machine and an L1800, costs will be minimal to you. Procolored also has a bad reputation from what I have collected( not first hand). 
 

When it comes to this, you are not printing much. You must shake and mix your ink daily. Some inks hold it better than others but the heavy Tio2 pigment will fall out of suspension. If it’s severe enough and long enough, it will start to coagulate on an almost microscopic level. This causes bad clogging. The same for the pigment micron size, but I feel like today everyone should have it together and not be selling ink that won’t work with all printers, that’s just asking for trouble if your ink can’t jet from a 1.5pl machine but can from. 3pl machine. 
 

Anyway, ink mixing and cleaning the machine daily is an absolute requirement, ground zero. Beyond that, it sounds like you used poor quality ink. That and some inks just don’t mix well. 
 

once the head experiencing clogging, ( inside or out) and it isn’t broken down and remedied immediately it will permanently damage your printhead. I’m not familiar with that cleaner, but I know first hand Epson branded cleaner can and will destroy a printhead in less than 10 minutes. I’ve done it myself, it’s actually my example mentioned previously about it sticking to the printhead. 
 

in short- you need to print often, clean often, and use inks that are from a reputable company. Beyond that- if you can’t clear the clog with head cleans- it’s done. It’s a waste of time. 
 

replace your printhead and you’ll very likely be good, from your description, given proper maintenance is being done and the ink is of quality. 
 

fortunately for you, it’s maybe $200-$300 for that printhead.  When I was in this boat, my printhead was $1,100 to replace. 
 

it’s also why I only recommend DTF superstore inks. It just works. I’ve used hundreds of liters and haven’t seen this issue since- unrelated to mechanical issues not brought on due to the ink. I’ve tried other inks on tester machines and they were sub par and usually caused issues. 
 

finding someone who cares and will hold themselves accountable for the quality of the product they sell is very important here. We’ve all been there, and wasted money learning. 
 

If your dampers are of quality, seated correctly, and your ink is good, then your head needs replaced. Keep in mind the capping station is also a wear item, I replace mine anytime I replace a printhead.  it ensures proper sealing, suction, and prevents future printhead failure due to the capping station overall. Been there done that.